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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2006, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
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Angry Scheduled shut downs

My 2001 trep with 3.2 eng turns off 1 to 2 miles from my res. on the way to work only. Last spring to correct this problem I switched the PCM and the TCM back to the orig. 2.7 units and the car ran fine til fall. Now the same neighbours watch me sit on the roadside for a minute or two and restate and drive away with no futher trouble for the day even when the car sits at work all day. I changed the output speed sensor as a result of limping home one evening during the summer. I can avoid the shut down by using 3rd rather than OD in the morning. It seems to get lockup in 3rd. Some times the car shifts like a boat, I feel a subtle hesitation, and notice a momentary tack drop in lockup or OD. Should I have change both speed sensors? did the computer change clean dirty terminals? does defrost use have something to do with it or is there solenoids in the transmission acting up and turning the car off. I have the battery code and 442 and 456 (leak lines too close to the road). I haven't tried a C reader yet just the key.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2006, 03:37 AM
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This is a common problem on 2.7 to 3.2 swaps. I think what happens on most is they live with it a while and it goes away or they get the ecm reflashed at a place like ecmtogo.com or smiliar. do a search. and you will see.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2006, 12:50 PM
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Unfortunately, this is probably an ecm fault. As long as you have changed the crank and cam sensors. Out of 50 swaps, I had 2 do this, they both had a bad ecu, neither one was repairable and had to be replaced. I used ecudirect.com. You can try to have Chrysler or someone flash it, but it probably wont fix the issue. Definately investigate those two codes first, before anything is done with the ecu.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2006, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Smile shut downs

Thanks for the help 32 intrepid. Last year I posted a similiar problem and you assisted then as well.I went 25000 km since trouble free til now. Since this post I put a C reader on my trep and got some numbers that weren't in my Haynes book and didn't come up with a key wiggle but are in the c reader manual. I got 33 (turbo), don't have one. 480A cooling fan which makes sense cause my ac was less than wonderful near the end of summer. I also got 7E5 which is probably 735 and the c reader say 5th gear ratio is wrong which it is as I am using the 2.7 tcm. I have the 3.2 doner car tcm and will try that. The 3.2 ecm ran the car but didn't run the ac and was doing the same shut downs at the same location. I was using the 2.7 tcm with the 3.2 ecm and you suggested this was the problem and matching the ecm and tcm worked til now. The dealer flashed the skim and couldn't understand why the 3.2 ecm wouldn't run the manual ac. The doner had a atc and also was a 99.I'm going to try both 3.2 ecm and tcm and hope the code 480a was the underlying ac problem. any suggestions? using third gear til warm and only doing it on the way to work and not on the way home is also interesting. The crank sensor and the cam sensor came with the doner engine. I still have the old 2.7, should I be using those sensors?

Last edited by Intrepid2001; 09-30-2006 at 02:58 PM.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-30-2006, 06:50 PM
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So, did you use engine and trans from the 3.2 donor? You should not have an incorrect gear ratio code whether you did or did not. This sometimes indicates there is a mechanical problem in the trans, as long as the input/output sensors are ok.

There are definately some compatibility issues here. If you use both 3.2 ecm/tcm, they probably wont work right with the BCM. Hopefully you didnt corrupt the BCM when you installed that 3.2 ecu and had it flashed the first time. You need to (if you havent already) get all the original 2.7 modules back in. Im not too sure on the gear ratio code, but the difference (2.7-3.2) is in the final drive ratio (differential) and shouldnt set a code, whether it was a 2.7 or 3.2 trans.

Be careful with that cooling fan code. Check the fuse. The a/c clutch is wired into the cooling fan fuse. Look real close at it. The fuse itself may be just cracked. If this is not it, for some reason the BCM isnt telling the ECM to turn on the a/c, or the ECM is faulty and wont do it.

If your getting codes like that P0033, then most likely there is an internal ecm fault. This may or may not be causing your trans problems too. I recommend shipping your original 2.7 ecu to ecudirect, and at least having it checked.

Crank sensor is the same 2.7/3.2. Cam sensors are different (which is ok, both do the same thing). Im saying you may have a bad crank or cam sensor, or both.

Good luck, this one is tough. Let me know how it turns out.


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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 01:31 AM Thread Starter
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Question shut downs

Hi 32 intrepid. When I first made the engine switch last year I changed eng, trans, rad (after the oil cooler) and all accessories as well as the ecm to the 3.2 unit. The wrecker just cut the doner on the A post and floor, took the hood, suspension dash and center consel and sent me the rest. The doner also had a auto stick that I didnt use. I had this problem last year and you advised me to switch back to the 2.7 ecm, I did in the spring and the problem was gone for 25000 km then came back in the fall when I started using the defrost again. The problem seems to be cold related (we have been getting below freezing at night for a couple of weeks now)or defrost related. I am able to avoid the shutdowns by driving the first 5 miles to work with the shifter in third. When the temp gage is up to running temp I switch the selector to od without a shut down and carry on for the day with out any shutdown and for the rest of the day start out with the selector in od even if the car sits all day at the office. The only thing I haven't got around to doing yet that you recomended was the grounding of the the ps low pressure switch line. The 3.2 ecm would not run the manual ac. I believe the doner was atc. The c reader erased the codes, I used od this morning and had a shut down but one shut down didn't make any codes. The previous 480A has got me really wondering. Also I had to replace the output speed sensor this summer, thats why I was wondering if I shoould have done both of them, does one malfunctioning wound the other? I'm thinking you might of hit on it with the speed sensors.

Last edited by Intrepid2001; 10-02-2006 at 01:50 AM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 10:36 AM
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1,000th post!! who hoo!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid2001
Hi 32 intrepid. When I first made the engine switch last year I changed eng, trans, rad (after the oil cooler) and all accessories as well as the ecm to the 3.2 unit. The wrecker just cut the doner on the A post and floor, took the hood, suspension dash and center consel and sent me the rest. The doner also had a auto stick that I didnt use. I had this problem last year and you advised me to switch back to the 2.7 ecm, I did in the spring and the problem was gone for 25000 km then came back in the fall when I started using the defrost again. The problem seems to be cold related (we have been getting below freezing at night for a couple of weeks now)or defrost related. I am able to avoid the shutdowns by driving the first 5 miles to work with the shifter in third. When the temp gage is up to running temp I switch the selector to od without a shut down and carry on for the day with out any shutdown and for the rest of the day start out with the selector in od even if the car sits all day at the office. The only thing I haven't got around to doing yet that you recomended was the grounding of the the ps low pressure switch line. The 3.2 ecm would not run the manual ac. I believe the doner was atc. The c reader erased the codes, I used od this morning and had a shut down but one shut down didn't make any codes. The previous 480A has got me really wondering. Also I had to replace the output speed sensor this summer, thats why I was wondering if I shoould have done both of them, does one malfunctioning wound the other? I'm thinking you might of hit on it with the speed sensors.
Have you checked all your battery connections and grounds? We might as well start simple, those can cause havoc if loose or corroded.

This starts right back up when it cuts off right?

I would definately replace that other speed sensor. They should always be done in pairs, when one fails, the other usually isnt far behind.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Intrepid
So, did you use engine and trans from the 3.2 donor? You should not have an incorrect gear ratio code whether you did or did not. This sometimes indicates there is a mechanical problem in the trans, as long as the input/output sensors are ok.

There are definately some compatibility issues here. If you use both 3.2 ecm/tcm, they probably wont work right with the BCM. Hopefully you didnt corrupt the BCM when you installed that 3.2 ecu and had it flashed the first time. You need to (if you havent already) get all the original 2.7 modules back in. Im not too sure on the gear ratio code, but the difference (2.7-3.2) is in the final drive ratio (differential) and shouldnt set a code, whether it was a 2.7 or 3.2 trans.

Be careful with that cooling fan code. Check the fuse. The a/c clutch is wired into the cooling fan fuse. Look real close at it. The fuse itself may be just cracked. If this is not it, for some reason the BCM isnt telling the ECM to turn on the a/c, or the ECM is faulty and wont do it.

If your getting codes like that P0033, then most likely there is an internal ecm fault. This may or may not be causing your trans problems too. I recommend shipping your original 2.7 ecu to ecudirect, and at least having it checked.

Crank sensor is the same 2.7/3.2. Cam sensors are different (which is ok, both do the same thing). Im saying you may have a bad crank or cam sensor, or both.

Good luck, this one is tough. Let me know how it turns out.
Wouldn't using the 3.2 trans using the 2.7 tcm set a code because of the different gear ratios ?
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear-man
Wouldn't using the 3.2 trans using the 2.7 tcm set a code because of the different gear ratios ?
No because its the differential gearing that is different in the final drive, not actually in the internal trans. There are no electronics involved there.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-02-2006, 01:44 PM
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Seems like cold weather is affecting all of our transmissions..

I got a similar problem and I think it might be TRS sensor related.
Transmission Range Shift sensor has a wide-range thermistor built in.
It can tell between -46F all the way to +1026 F.
Normal temp is supposed to be 180 or so.

I've searched and sifted thru the Threads here and I noticed that limp mode is when TRS detects anything over 500F. Then, if it is malfunctioning and shows 1026F max temperature, that's superheated - it sends signal to PCM (or ECU as you call it), and shuts down the car.

Maybe this helps, I dunno, my IN/OUT and TRS sensors are in the mail, I'll post further.
post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-08-2006, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Smile

You response is interesting JE Electronics. The weather warmed up here for the last week, better than 50F was the coldest at night and the shutdowns have gone away. Freezing at night and defrost use has something to do with it. I'm going to try the input speed sensor, I'll wait on the trans position sensor til you try it. It looks like I have to take the valve body off to get at the tps and only desperation will force me to that measure.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-08-2006, 04:48 PM
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I've replaced the INPUT and OUTPUT sensors today.
Now I have to wait till tomorrow, overnight, to see if I'm in limp.
They're forecasting 42F overnight.

TRS is in valve body, yea.
How hard is that to do? I can just go back to the shop and have them replace it, since the transmission is still under rebuilders warranty. Only thing is, I don't want to wait for 10 days till I get my car back.
MR2 Turbo is already in storage.
post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-09-2006, 10:55 AM
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UPDATE:

Check this out now...

This morning, car is cooled, and I figure, test time.
I left at 7:45, figured, give me enough time to see what happens with the tranny, and I can get to work.

It shifted fine yesterday, after I replaced the sensors..


Turn the car on. (Check.)
Idle for 60 seconds. Always do this to get the oil flowing. (Check.)
I back outta driveway. (Check.)
Put in in drive. (Check)
First gear grabs. (Check.)
Start accellerating. (Check.)
Second gear. (Check.)
~30 mph~, third gear. (YAY!!!! Check.)
300 feet down the road RPMS jump to 4000, car stops accellerating. (WTF1.0?!?!!)
I let go off gas, throw it to A/S, it said 2nd gear. (Ahh, here we go again, limpmode.)
OK, now we in second gear, 'cept car won't even accellerate! (WTF2.0?!?!)
Car fell outta gear! Even though A/S said it was in 2nd. Or D. Still just fell out..
Idled it in Drive for about a minute, kicked back into 2nd.
Accellerated some more, still second gear. Came to a stop sign. Car downshifted to first.
(Ummm.. ok?)
First, second, third... now fine.
45+ mph, 4th gear. (ok?!)
50+, overdrive. (ok..)

Fine all the way to work.. (~7 miles)


Just something to screw with your morning brain.
post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-17-2006, 09:43 PM Thread Starter
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Smile Shut downs

I had another shut down and immediately went to the code reader rather than using the key wiggle to get codes. I got 480A and 500 so its the VSS input. The weather turned warm here, 40 f overnight and 50 f daytime and the shut downs went away. I was in Winnipeg last week and starting up cold (below freezing) and driving in stop and go traffic eliminates shut downs. When I got home and it was cold again here I got the shut downs at the same place along the highway. I'll let you know what happens when I get the ambition to crawl under the trep and change the VSS input. Reading your post makes me wonder if I should disconnect the battery for a few minutes after I change the sensor to make it reboot.

Last edited by Intrepid2001; 10-17-2006 at 09:47 PM.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-18-2006, 10:37 AM
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Same here.

It's been above 50F the last week or so, tranny is not going to limp mode anymore.

I'm waiting for it to drop down below 40F overnight, I can see it coming already.. "limp till warm."
I already got a name for the problem: LTW-40.

Transmission place told me that valve body is screwed up or somthn. Even though I had it rebuilt, they don't change valve bodies. They stated something about fluid not flowing right thru the shifting channels until it gets warm, therefore TCM goes LTW.
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