removed alternator. ECM fried died no start - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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removed alternator. ECM fried died no start

removed alternator form 93 3.3L started it up without alternator to just move the car real quick across drive.,, it started ran for about 5-10 seconds then died. restarted thn ran for about 2 seconrds died again.. will not start run nothing any more,, hiccup or backfire pop slightrly once in a while trying to start but will not start at all. ran new wires to CPS and replaced CKPS and CPS both new ones and still nothing.. have orange wire hot with ASD relay and FP primes and everything like should be.. wtf happened? ive tried and thrown EVERYTHINGF possible at it,.,. gone through all wiring all uses all links all relays and yanked out the pcm and took it apart even done it all!! i researched and found out exactly how the sensors and pcm is wired up and how they trigger and run ignition and injection etc totally.,


sooo... you apparently cant start/run these cars without alternator connected? wtf!! thats some real BS ! was a perfect running driver until i rmoved alternaor and front brackets and ps pump stuff for repairs.. and this aint the first damned time ive had the front stuff off this 3.3L and also had engine mounts unbolted and all that.. for other repairs work in the past and there was no issue at all then! but i never evne turned no the key with the alt removed unplugged back then! someonbody HAS to know something whats going no here!! this damned car!! also it has had in the past some issues with randmo misfiring chugging loss of power on highway and driving in general.. a history of it and for no rason at all unknown still to this day but it came out of it and i found that the MAP sensor had died. maybe that was what was going on the MAP was dying off and on.. apparently. the car is worth about a nickel at the very most its beat to all hell and totally rotted out rusted out rockers etc are gone toasted. and alot of the interior and back seats are gone rmeoved streipepd and door panels too,.
and never was maintained for shit and reverse is gone and trans has already been screwed up shifting for years now but it still will drive evn on highway but its jerky alot til it get to speed haha. and it leaks uses oil but it runs good and always reliable never got stranded ever, and drives great still so id like to fix it?? but wtf is wrong!!?? i know its not the engine!! it still runs great strong fine! its some damned stupid electrical crap!

Last edited by misterwabbit; 08-31-2018 at 10:53 AM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 05:52 PM
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removed alternator form 93 3.3L started it up without alternator to just move the car real quick across drive.,, it started ran for about 5-10 seconds then died. restarted thn ran for about 2 seconrds died again.. will not start run nothing any more,, hiccup or backfire pop slightrly once in a while trying to start but will not start at all. ran new wires to CPS and replaced CKPS and CPS both new ones and still nothing.. have orange wire hot with ASD relay and FP primes and everything like should be.. wtf happened? ive tried and thrown EVERYTHINGF possible at it,.,. gone through all wiring all uses all links all relays and yanked out the pcm and took it apart even done it all!! i researched and found out exactly how the sensors and pcm is wired up and how they trigger and run ignition and injection etc totally.,


sooo... you apparently cant start/run these cars without alternator connected? wtf!! thats some real BS ! was a perfect running driver until i rmoved alternaor and front brackets and ps pump stuff for repairs.. and this aint the first damned time ive had the front stuff off this 3.3L and also had engine mounts unbolted and all that.. for other repairs work in the past and there was no issue at all then! but i never evne turned no the key with the alt removed unplugged back then! someonbody HAS to know something whats going no here!! this fuckin car!! also it has had in the past some issues with randmo misfiring chugging loss of power on highway and driving in general.. a history of it and for no rason at all unknown still to this day but it came out of it and i found that the MAP sensor had died. maybe that was what was going on the MAP was dying off and on.. apparently. the car is worth about a nickel at the very most its beat to all hell and totally rotted out rusted out rockers etc are gone toasted. and alot of the interior and back seats are gone rmeoved streipepd and door panels too,.
and never was maintained for shit and reverse is gone and trans is fucked up shifting and it leaks uses oil but it runs good and always reliable never got stranded ever, and drives great still so id like to fix it?? but wtf is wrong!!?? i know its not the engine!! it still runs great strong fine! its some fuckin bullshit electrical crap!
As far as I know, older cars like ours can run without an alternator. I mean if the alternator belt broke, it shouldn't fry the PCM. Assuming you have spark, and fuel pressure is good, I'm not sure. If I had to guess, maybe bad voltage regulator on PCM and it got fried.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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no no... i totally removed it from car. wires and all. it was fine totally until i had rmeoved it from the car and THEN after that started the car. without the alternator connected AT ALL. i dont know how else to explain this.. that the alternator was no in the car at all when i started and tried to move it across driveway.. and it fried failed died and wont start run at all . evne with alt back in it connected and good.
somehow the pcm fried for no reason when alternator was not connected and with it started and running.

nothing broke. nothing changed. didnt do anything else. the belt i removed it , and the alt i removed also in order to wash clean engine off it was covered in p/s fluid and oil crud really bad and oil was getitng into the alt. but it worked charged everything perfect fine before i removed it and started it without the alt connected at all. this is ALL i did when this happened. it was 100% perfect fine runnign driving car til this.

it didnt break.. no.. i wasnt evne working on charging system i was working on p/s pump and hi pressure hose and other stuff.. its bene so damned impossible to explain this and ppl to understand this./. and to figure out why the hell this can happen and how it did.

Last edited by misterwabbit; 09-22-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 09:04 PM
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Yeah - doesn’t make sense that running without alternator would kill anything. Try disconnecting battery for 20 minutes, then reconnect. A shot in the dark. Ignition/fuel injectors or other fuses blown?
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 09:08 PM
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You washed the engine bay? All bets are off then.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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i ran it with just battery in it.. no alternator. some reason the computer fried tryig to run with just battery power alone. now ive run it many times the other way aroud.,... with no battery at all and just iwth alternator and always did fine.. start it up and remove battery and drive it across town or whatever.. no problems with doing that ever. many times,. i cant find anything else that can be bad wrong with it i ahve rplaced th sensors and run all new wires from pcm to both sensors and still same exact thing no change, wont start at all. tan, blue, and orange
and a black wires are ASD and sensors signal wires on these. i been all through all this for like 6 months trying to fix it figure it out all to no avail. the only unknown left now is the ecm and i cant test it its a 1.5 OBD oddball screwy one wit the small green wiring test connector weird under dash column panel they dont have a computer/scanner for these 93 cars. i ran key test blinking on it and theres like 6 or 7 blinking CEL codes set in the memory. its nuts.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 09:22 PM
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Buy a PCM.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 07:28 AM
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The injectors are supplied with power directly off the alternator feed along with several other sensors who use the ground as the sensing unit. By doing this you may have damaged it. Also is not recommend to drive it without a battery. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 08-31-2018, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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The injectors are supplied with power directly off the alternator feed along with several other sensors who use the ground as the sensing unit. By doing this you may have damaged it. Also is not recommend to drive it without a battery. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
damaged the ecm right? cuz didnt even have alternator ocnnected when it died quit running. so. just had battery connected and running off it.

for less than 10 seconds.

and by feed do you mean field? because if its already not runnig how can injectors need the alternator in order to power them if its not already started and running? this makes no sense at all. the ASD relay is supposed to power up sensors and everything not the alternator. and it does. all i did was started it without alternator and it started up ran for less than 10 seconds and shut itself off and hasnt started run since even with alt connected again. and ASD works. sesnsors and FP and etc all are powered up. i just cant understand how an ECM can fry with no alternator connected while running,. i dont get it? what am i missing here?? no one seems to be able to answer this definitively. are these early LH cars THIS damned complicated? if so then its scrap time im done,. i cant find a 93 ECM anyways none exist anywherre

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-21-2018, 06:31 PM
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damaged the ecm right? cuz didnt even have alternator ocnnected when it died quit running. so. just had battery connected and running off it.

for less than 10 seconds.

and by feed do you mean field? because if its already not runnig how can injectors need the alternator in order to power them if its not already started and running? this makes no sense at all. the ASD relay is supposed to power up sensors and everything not the alternator. and it does. all i did was started it without alternator and it started up ran for less than 10 seconds and shut itself off and hasnt started run since even with alt connected again. and ASD works. sesnsors and FP and etc all are powered up. i just cant understand how an ECM can fry with no alternator connected while running,. i dont get it? what am i missing here?? no one seems to be able to answer this definitively. are these early LH cars THIS damned complicated? if so then its scrap time im done,. i cant find a 93 ECM anyways none exist anywherre

The injectors are fed power directly from the wiring output on the alternator. The PCM uses the grounds to control the firing.

The battery also acts like a buffer with voltage spikes. By removing the battery PCM may have sense low voltage and spiked the system frying a few components. Does not take alot to do with electronics.

ASD relay effects Injectors, Fuel Pump, and Coil. Neither of these will work if the ASD relay is not energized. PCM will not energize this while crank if a crank or cam sensor signal is not seen.


Most of the other sensors are fed off a 5v rail supplied via PCM and uses the grounds as sensor return paths.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-22-2018, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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The injectors are fed power directly from the wiring output on the alternator. The PCM uses the grounds to control the firing.

The battery also acts like a buffer with voltage spikes. By removing the battery PCM may have sense low voltage and spiked the system frying a few components. Does not take alot to do with electronics.

ASD relay effects Injectors, Fuel Pump, and Coil. Neither of these will work if the ASD relay is not energized. PCM will not energize this while crank if a crank or cam sensor signal is not seen.


Most of the other sensors are fed off a 5v rail supplied via PCM and uses the grounds as sensor return paths.

hmm interesting never heard anything before about the voltage spke thing in the PCMwithout having ther alternator connected while running. what about with a non charging outut alternaotr? why wouldnt running with a dead output alternator not be the same as running witout one at all? if this was true then wouldnt pcm fry anytime you had alternator quit?

wouldnt the sam e thing happen? is this true? it has ASD power t 5v to all sensors and FP and all that still like it should. i already went throguh all this earlier in the year. i even ran brand new signal and ground wires straight from PCM connector to the sensors.. just for the hay of it and new sensors too.
no change, still wont fire up start just backfires out the exh once in a while when cranking it, thats it.

i have not found a way to have an OBD 1.5 PCM tested any where any how. hell i cant evne access codes via scanner tech tool. have to do it old fashioned light flashing way, i guess that is the norm on these. it has like 5 or 6 codes set. something bad is wrong whatever happened. when before it had one code or none. before i went and started it with only battery connected and no alt.

Last edited by misterwabbit; 09-22-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-22-2018, 06:21 PM
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As JumpDrive said, the battery acts like a big capacitor and dampens out voltage spikes that can damage electronics. Different than running without the alternator working.

With alternator not working, the voltage just won't be as high as with it working, and battery is still there to smooth out damaging voltage spikes, and of course, as you keep driving it with alternator not working, battery voltage gets lower and lower until finally the voltage is too low for things to work right. Low voltage (from alternator not working) won't damage anything, but high voltage spikes (from battery not being there to filter them out) will.

I think voltage spikes without a battery aren't as likely to damage electronics as they use to be - they design in more protection against spikes nowadays, but there still is some risk.


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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-22-2018, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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You washed the engine bay? All bets are off then.
nuh i just washed oil off front of engine. nothing else. and i barely even did that, its stil dirty oily. just a lil less, as far as crud gunk goes.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-22-2018, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
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As JumpDrive said, the battery acts like a big capacitor and dampens out voltage spikes that can damage electronics. Different than running without the alternator working.

With alternator not working, the voltage just won't be as high as with it working, and battery is still there to smooth out damaging voltage spikes, and of course, as you keep driving it with alternator not working, battery voltage gets lower and lower until finally the voltage is too low for things to work right. Low voltage (from alternator not working) won't damage anything, but high voltage spikes (from battery not being there to filter them out) will.

I think voltage spikes without a battery aren't as likely to damage electronics as they use to be - they design in more protection against spikes nowadays, but there still is some risk.
nice and all,.,,,, but thats not whats going on here, as i didnt run it without the battery.

i ran it withtout the ALTERNATOR. ive ran this car without a battery MANYtimes and its always been fine. it wasnt until i ran it without the alternator that it stalled died right away and hasnt started run since.
im trying to understand how or why runnign without an alternator could hurt anything. it definitely did.. somehow.

anyways, the ASD is energized powered up 5v as are the FP and all the sensors. im at a loss. what else can be going on here besides the PCM? esepcialyl when it was perfectly fine before starting without alternator?

Last edited by misterwabbit; 09-22-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-27-2018, 07:59 PM
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nice and all,.,,,, but thats not whats going on here, as i didnt run it without the battery.

i ran it withtout the ALTERNATOR. ive ran this car without a battery MANYtimes and its always been fine. it wasnt until i ran it without the alternator that it stalled died right away and hasnt started run since.
im trying to understand how or why runnign without an alternator could hurt anything. it definitely did.. somehow.

anyways, the ASD is energized powered up 5v as are the FP and all the sensors. im at a loss. what else can be going on here besides the PCM? esepcialyl when it was perfectly fine before starting without alternator?
Opps. There goes that theory. Dunno. Did something though!
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