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post #1 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-17-2009, 11:17 PM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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Smile First Gen 3.3 -> 3.5 transplant {56K BEWARE}

Well, here is my big mod I've been drooling over since I got the car...

I've always liked the car I've got from a body, paint, and ride perspective. In my thread https://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/t117032/, you can read in long prose about how I brought it back to life, and how it still ticks... (the short story is that I bought the car with an overheating problem. After an upper rebuild and new oil pump, the engine runs cool but it has this constant tick... when the oil is low, it ticks worse, and I'm sick of getting strange looks.)



First, here's a list of what I've done to the car...

For my first MOD (as apposed to repair of factory equiptment), I installed the 2002 sunglass holders on my B pillars. I am going to attach them slightly different to make them sit a little lower. The purple is from the lighting, not a stain in the headliner. I bought them from a member here - but I'm sorry, I don't remember the user name. User's first name is Nicholas. (admin, can you look up user by e-mail address?)




Next I bought a set of leather seats (and some other goodies I've not installed yet) from a member in Chicago, Kevin, 96_interped.



I was NOT happy with what I bought, so I went out to a local yard and found a set of dark slate (almost black) leather seats from a 1996/1997 LHS. I am VERY happy with these seats... they need a little touch up now, but here are some pictures.





My pictures there only show the front seat, my back seats are covered in child restraints! In that picture, you can also see my matching leather center console that was purchased from another user on the board here. Again, I don't remember his user name, but Patrick, maybe PezKing (or something), sold it to me along with a matching leather shifter for my autostick conversion (yet to come). You can also see the steering wheel cover my wife wanted to install over the black leather steering wheel. Sheesh. UPDATE: I think I found it, GAZE sold me some items, and I think it was these.

Well, with the motor still ticking, and with a broken windshield, but with the car really becoming part of the family, I went looking for a donor car for a new motor and new glass.

So, I bought a 1996 3.5 ES Intrepid from fellow Iowan and DI.net member, NHOGAN. The car has sat for about a year in my back yard waiting for the right time.

On the eve of Christmas Eve, I was at a junk yard at closing time rushing to get a rear window for my minivan after backing into a mail box in Terre Haute, IN... and sitting on the counter right in front of me was the CD/Cassette OEM radio... $55 later, it was mine.



The transmission went out on my car in June of 2009, and I replaced it with a 2002 2.7 tranny.





With a new tranny, I feel committed to make the car run... In September I was laid off from a job I really didn't care for, so I went on a quest to track down the last of my parts I needed for my conversion.

I found a user on the board here parting out a '93 Eagle Vision TSi. I still needed an ECM for the 3.5 that was an OBDI (as the 1996 from Nick was an OBDII), and I also needed an engine wiring harness that was set up for OBDI. I bought that and had some issues with shipping, so I won't drag the user's name through this thread. I also picked up a 3.5 1st gen FULL TIMING SET and water pump from bob441. Bob included 4 of the 6 spark plugs I'll need (freebies!!), and I also purchased from him the external drive belts.

So, feeling the time was right, I went and borrowed the engine crane from my buddy Jim.



I then pulled the car up to the garage... I don't have the room IN the garage for the car, the crane, all my tools, AND ALL THE JUNK I HAVE IN THE GARAGE I WANT TO THROW AWAY, so most of the car work will be done in the drive way. I'll pull the car 1/2 in the garage to do the pull, then push it out to the street for short term storage.

Here's what it looked like as I started...




The car is my wife's... I just like working on it and driving her around in it when I get to... So, I told her she had to be involved and help me out - you know, get tools if I'm laying under the car, chase the kids away, and take pictures. Here's the prettiest thing to ever sit on that bumper... (Nick may argue with me, and I will let him disagree with me, but my opinion still stands!)



Speaking of keeping the kids away, I've got my two little helpers in the garage with me on this day...



The little guy there thinks he's my tool runner... "Troos, troos!!!" ("Tools, tools!!!")

The older boy has his first cell phone, and I asked him to take pictures of the action... So he took some pictures of my wife and I, then me working.




Some of my older son's 'action' shots





There, the wiper cowl is out!



Well, after a couple of hours (I had to chase my photographer out of the chemicals and tools, etc), I had used three lenghs of extensions (1/2 drive), a 1/2 drive ratchet, 10mm, 13mm, and 15mm 1/2 drive sockets, a Phillips screw driver, a large flat screw driver, a mini flat screw driver, and a slip-joint plier.

This was the result so far...






I do not yet want to take apart so much that I can't pull it in the garage... so more is going to come off soon. I'm going to drive it up on ramps and remove bits and pieces from the underside of the car, then roll it down and remove the intake and unbolt the engine from the tranny, finish off the exhaust, and pull it out.











These are for my kids, they just love 'em.










:fun_66:
:
:elefant:


:


(last pic from my older son)

"TROOS!!!!!"




Last edited by cdmccul; 11-22-2009 at 12:09 AM. Reason: Proof reading :)
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post #2 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-17-2009, 11:50 PM
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good thing you have a donor car ...there is a lot more than just the engine that changed. and doing obd2 to obd1 while you are at it probably isnt going to help.
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post #3 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-17-2009, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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I should clarify...

I am NOT doing the OBDI to OBDII conversion... that would take a full dash and body harness, etc... NOT what I want to do. I have studied the wire harness and the schematics from the FSM, and there are only two wireing differences between a 3.3 OBDI and a 3.5 OBDI. I THINK that the front body harness is the same between both cars, just the engine harness is the change. There is a chance I'll have to run those two wires from the junction block to the ECM... If I find that there are too many changes between the 3.5 OBDI and 3.5 OBDII engine sensor connectors, I can use the OBDII engine harness and change the connector location of like 3 or 4 wires.

From the sale thread for the '93 TSi harness, I'll most likely ONLY end up using the ECM... Kinda a waste really of the seller's time, but he got paid his asking price.
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post #4 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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I know that there are changes to the power steering lines... I've looked at the AC, and I think I can just end up using my 3.3 compressor on the 3.5 block... there's a slight difference to the bend of the hoses, but I think it can be adapted.
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post #5 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 12:05 AM
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Nice, looking forward to seeing the progress on this.
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post #6 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 02:56 AM
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Looks like fun. Winter is going to be here soon hopefully you can get this done before its too cold.
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post #7 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 06:59 AM
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you are doing a partial OBD swap so its even more of a pain than doing the full swap because you have to track down every change to see if its worth worrying about. Its certainly not impossible, just tedious. The obd1 and 2 3.5 have more in common, sensor wise, than the obd1 and 2 3.3. they even have things like obd1 map sensor on all and all have the air temp sensor that only obd2 3.3s have
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post #8 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytrepper View Post
Nice, looking forward to seeing the progress on this.
I'm flattered that DAN the MAN has chimed in and wants to see progress. Hehehehehe I told my wife that I wanted lots of pictures taken for the board here, so I plan on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHogan View Post
Looks like fun. Winter is going to be here soon hopefully you can get this done before its too cold.
Yea, I see that it is going to warm up a little bit tomorrow and less rain... This weekend is going to be nice too. I just hope I can get out and get it done before we head out of town for the holidays. Honestly, I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to not trust it for longer trips, especially as it gets cold and the kids will be in the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewievette View Post
you are doing a partial OBD swap so its even more of a pain than doing the full swap because you have to track down every change to see if its worth worrying about. Its certainly not impossible, just tedious. The obd1 and 2 3.5 have more in common, sensor wise, than the obd1 and 2 3.3. they even have things like obd1 map sensor on all and all have the air temp sensor that only obd2 3.3s have
Yea, I scrutinized the FSM for changes between the various years and engines... Since there are very few differences in the engine harness where it counts... I've got it on paper in the garage right now (heh, and I'm not dressed to go outside, still in my PJ's), but I remember looking that one of the three plugs has no changes, one I need to move a pin to the third plug, and then I need to make sure the line for the second knock sensor is there.
If I use the OBDI harness, I seem to remember having to only run the extra wire for the knock sensor. One thing I don't yet know about what I'll do with the AC wiring to keep it looking 'right'.

I'll keep posting as I go, and when I get to moving wiring around, I'll post what I research and find.

Last edited by cdmccul; 11-18-2009 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Heh, I wish I could effectively proof read as I type it, not after I post it!
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post #9 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdmccul View Post
I'm flattered that DAN the MAN has chimed in and wants to see progress. Hehehehehe I told my wife that I wanted lots of pictures taken for the board here, so I plan on
I must see pics!! I cant go without when there is an engine swap going on!!
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post #10 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 11:11 AM
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I must see pics!! I cant go without when there is an engine swap going on!!
Gotta agree with Dan more pictures are always a good thing!
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post #11 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 05:35 PM
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So whatcha gonna do with the old engine and those nice fresh-ish heads?
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post #12 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Hehehehehe, I didn't know if the heads would have a market or not...

But the engine PROBABLY doesn't have a home. It has a new oil pump, new main and rod bearings, a shim under the new oil pump by-pass spring, and as you put it, fresh-ish heads... but it has that stupid tick. I think it is either a rod knock that just NEVER got worse (hard to believe), or it is a lifter that froze. When I go to pull this engine out, I'm going to pop off the valve covers, and whack each rocker arm right over the push rod with a hammer, and hopefully dislodge the lifter. Then I'll fire it back up and see if the tick is still there or not... It is the one last thing to try before condeming it. The theory is that when it began to over heat, MAYBE some water got into a lifter and made it rust just enough that it will take a good jaring to break it free.

But, I'll carefully take the 3.3 apart to see if I can find the source of the tick otherwise... then it is up for sale in parts or whole, I guess.
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post #13 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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Progress update -

ZILCH, ZERO, ZIP! I did some reading up on removing the engine, nothing sticks out. It drizzled all day today, and I had an unemployment hearing over the phone that took up the middle of my day, so today was a house work day.

One question though... on the 3.5, how is the PS pump bracket held on? I found the three bolts on the front of the block, but the bracket is still firmly attached... is there one or two more bolts I can get to with out removing the pulley from the pump (just to avoid having to, I've got the tool if I am required to)?
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post #14 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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Well, today was an adventure! I have a bunch of photos to update after putting on a bandaide and letting the Advil kick in...
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post #15 of 90 (permalink) Old 11-20-2009, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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This is a test...

Yay, I got it!


Last edited by cdmccul; 11-22-2009 at 12:11 AM.
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