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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 05:52 PM
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 06:01 PM
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Most of the refiners add it in their gasoline as an oxygenate to lower emissions. Some states even require it my law, like Minnesota. So it isn't always posted on the pumps that there is any ethanol in it. So you've been most likely using some ethanol right along and don't even realize it. But what you're probably seeing for the first time is the E85, which can be used the the "flex fuel" cars. That fuel is different from everyday gas and won't work well in ordinary cars.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 06:29 PM
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Well, yera out west i have used e85 hre and there and it was fine. Here in the NE ie around philly, we just started for the 1st time to get ehtanol at the pumps. It was methanol until 2 weeks ago, now its ethanol. So maybe ehtanol is different somewhat then E85, becasue if pretty much everyone is going to have to be using ehtanol soon if not already it wouldn't mke sense for them to make it is no one could use it. And use it long term
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 07:35 PM
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E85 is ethanol, 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. That high a content of ethanol can't be used in regular cars.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-17-2006, 07:58 PM
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So I'm just wondering, what if someone actually ran it in a non flex fuel car? would it damage shit? or be like a hardcore cleaning agent :P
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by froggy81500
E85 is ethanol, 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. That high a content of ethanol can't be used in regular cars.

ok so if that is true, what are we all suppose to do for gas now?
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 07:05 AM
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ok so if that is true, what are we all suppose to do for gas now?
Well, you keep using regular gas. Most modern cars are ok to run low amounts of ethanol blended in gasoline. Like I said earlier, some places use as much as 10%E and 90% gas, which is an acceptable amount. The whole reason for that is the Federal Clean Air act mandated the use of oxygenates in fuel to lower emissions. MTBE was the first choice, but later on it was discovered that MTBE contaminated ground water, so ethanol is the next best thing. You mentioned methanol earlier, methanol might be what the "M" in MTBE is, I'm not totally sure.

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So I'm just wondering, what if someone actually ran it in a non flex fuel car? would it damage shit? or be like a hardcore cleaning agent :P
First, the engine isn't going to run well, because ethanol burns differently than gasoline and the programming of the pcm isn't equipped to handle it. More than likely you will notice a lack in power, ethanol has less energy than gas, so you'll also notice lower MPG. And its highly likely that the CEL will eventually come on. Ethanol also has a higher content of oxygen, so the pcm would be pushed to its limit to richen the mixture, and might not be able to obtain the air/fuel ratio its programmed for. Also, ethanol from what I've been reading, is more corrosive than gas, so you stand to damage fuel system components, not to mention engine internals, including seals and gaskets.

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 05-18-2006, 11:54 AM
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ok so what there rolling out isn't e85 but stilla ethanol blend. Yea i knew they have been taking methanol out of the gas for a while, and that use to be a 15% blend, i guess they found the perfect % of ethanol that we could all use. Thats all i was getting at, i thought it was a %15 blend still but maybe not
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-31-2015, 07:06 AM
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All cars are flexfuel able (ethanol methenol gas, or any blend thereof)
You just need to hack the software on the car to use it correctly as its set to "mess" up your car because the auto and oil companies don't want you to
Bare mind it's tech illegal to hack your car though

Watch pump 2014, on Netflix to learn more, you'll find the 2nd half of the movie interesting

Connect ebo2 plug to computer, engine diagnosis, goto flex fuel, sensor type calculated, it'll adapt to the fuel over a few drives, fix the retard timing for the flex fuel it it's set, as this is what will break the use of the fuel, quoted from the movie and source http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/...mple-hack.html
This is good for all cars, more so on fords, because they originally made these engines to be flex fuels, or rather use corn oil, ..

Last edited by Wagssz; 08-31-2015 at 07:25 AM.
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-31-2015, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Wagssz View Post
All cars are flexfuel able (ethanol methenol gas, or any blend thereof)
You just need to hack the software on the car to use it correctly as its set to "mess" up your car because the auto and oil companies don't want you to
Bare mind it's tech illegal to hack your car though

Watch pump 2014, on Netflix to learn more, you'll find the 2nd half of the movie interesting

Connect ebo2 plug to computer, engine diagnosis, goto flex fuel, sensor type calculated, it'll adapt to the fuel over a few drives, fix the retard timing for the flex fuel it it's set, as this is what will break the use of the fuel, quoted from the movie and source http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/...mple-hack.html
This is good for all cars, more so on fords, because they originally made these engines to be flex fuels, or rather use corn oil, ..
"John Brackett is doing this to help promote a documentary he helped make with the Fuels Freedom Foundation called “PUMP,” looking into why the U.S. isn’t taking better advantage of cleaner burning, less expensive alternative fuels."

Which ones are less expensive if subsidies are taken away? Groups promoting alternative fuels lobby for subsidies to make alternative fuels artificially cheaper.

If it weren't for subsidies (paid for by the tax payers), I know some of the alternate fuels are *not* economically viable. The only reason they *appear* to be economical is due to money paid for their manufacture that gets left out of that equation.

Which alternative fuels would be economically viable if not tax-payer subsidized? I'm asking because I don't know the answer. I know corn-derived ethanol is not and never will be economically feasible unless subsidized (plus it drives the price of certain foods way up because the corn or land that would be available for food is diverted to ethanol production).

Remove all the subsidies (including ones to the petroleum industry) and let the market determine the true demand for all options.


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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-31-2015, 10:16 AM
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"John Brackett is doing this to help promote a documentary he helped make with the Fuels Freedom Foundation called “PUMP,” looking into why the U.S. isn’t taking better advantage of cleaner burning, less expensive alternative fuels."

Which ones are less expensive if subsidies are taken away? Groups promoting alternative fuels lobby for subsidies to make alternative fuels artificially cheaper.

If it weren't for subsidies (paid for by the tax payers), I know some of the alternate fuels are *not* economically viable. The only reason they *appear* to be economical is due to money paid for their manufacture that gets left out of that equation.

Which alternative fuels would be economically viable if not tax-payer subsidized? I'm asking because I don't know the answer. I know corn-derifuelethanol is not and never will be economically feasible unless subsidized (plus it drives the price of certain foods way up because the corn or land that would be available for food is diverted to ethanol production).

Remove all the subsidies (including ones to the petroleum industry) and let the market determine the true demand for all options.
In the video it explains that the corn used is a product used for animal feed, hense not cutting into our food supply
With that it has to be processed in a sense that you get the feed for the animals and the oil as well, and no loss is sustained but rather another product that isn't being used and wasted, but in addition to that, we can realistically use anything to create these alt oils/gases, like using most waste and converting it into a 50% blend with gasoline as a fuel
I'm not sure about these subsidiaries, but I'll assume it's ment for the science behind the creation in finding the best alt fuel we can
Brazil in the first and only country that doesn't rely on importing oil, and can make its own from a Derivative of alc , giving there people a choice in what fuel they want to use
They even were able to create jobs feed the poor, all because the president did something about it
So I ask why can't the best country in the world do the same
Because the oil companies buy the government's support, and it needs to stop
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-01-2015, 10:05 PM
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Brazil uses sugarcane for its ethanol production which gives if I remember correctly about 6 times as much energy back as invested into the fuel production.

Compare this to corn ethanol which is about a one to one ratio or sometimes worse, yes, actually losing energy in the process. This means essentially burning more petroleum than you are getting out in ethanol. This is not good for anything. But that's government for you.

If you have access to economically viable ethanol then that's a great thing to do, but if it's corn ethanol it's not even better for the environment.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-04-2015, 08:47 PM
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Been interested with getting E85 system, but some question;
1. Would there be an effect with engine performance?
2. How long would the investment take to return the cost?
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-04-2015, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rapide View Post
Been interested with getting E85 system, but some question;
1. Would there be an effect with engine performance?
2. How long would the investment take to return the cost?
#1 Without extensive modification, there would be a loss of power.

#2 Current cost of E85 here in Iowa is about $1.95. Mathematically it takes about 1.3 times as much fuel when running E85 vs regular unleaded so for every gallon of regular gas that could be used, at the moment you would be burning $2.54 worth of E85 instead. Considering that regular unleaded currently cost $2.46, it would be impossible to get any return in the cost.
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