Intermittent stalling '98 3.2L - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Intermittent stalling '98 3.2L

I have had an intermittent stalling issue with my car for 2 years now. I have replaced the ECU, relays and mopar crankshaft/cam sensors. When I am driving the motor will shut off, the check engine light will come on and then the car will restart if I am going a decent speed. It usually will do this several times at once and then drive fine for an hour. If I am stopped and it shuts off, I have always been able to restart the car and continue driving. There are no codes that come up after this happens. When this happens I have noticed the cruise control will not turn on with the on/off switch on the steering wheel, however I can turn the cruise on with any of the other buttons (set, coast) and after that the cruise on/off switch will work.

When I let it run in the driveway I have noticed a couple times when it stalls, I hear the fuel pump come on and off quickly, I thought it was the relays but to no avail. What could the problem be? I was thinking it is something with the fuel pump, bad ground?
rjlackage is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 08:59 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 267
Feedback: 0 / 0%
   
Definitely seems like a bad ground. There are various grounds located on the chassis and you'll have to go through this manual:
http://oskin.ru/chrysler-dodge/manua...pid/ELH_8W.PDF

to find out where they are to check them. They're near the end. You'll see labels like G301. G is for ground. You can also view the ground diagrams and see which circuits contain the most items you're having trouble with. That'd be a good place to start. See which ground label they ground to and look for the image of the location of that ground near the end of the manual.
codyj is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 10:08 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 15,945
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Have you check for codes using either the key dance (turn key from off to Run and back off, repeat, then turn to Run a third time and leave it there and read the codes displayed on the odometer) or a code reader that you can borrow at auto parts stores?
peva is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-07-2018, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Codyj, thanks for the manual, I will test/inspect some of the grounds this week.

Peva, I've done the key dance and OBD scanner, no codes.
rjlackage is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 05:58 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 15,945
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Going on nothing but the intermittent shut offs with immediate re-start, no codes being thrown, and the otherwise unexplained odd behavior of the cruise control, my suspicions would be with the cam position sensor or its wiring (or timing that is right on the edge of some error threshold).

If you disconnect the cam position sensor, does it run without cutting off? It will be limited in rpm without the cam sensor but otherwise should run normally if the cam sensor circuit is causing your problem when connected. (The ign. runs off the crank position sensor up to IIRC 2500 rpm and then runs off the cam sensor above that RPM.) If doing that stops the shut offs and odd cruise control behavior, at least you will narrow down the possible cause. If the shut offs continue with it disconnected, you will have lost nothing other than your time of running that experiment and will likely eliminate the cam sensor circuit from being the problem. I honestly donít know if cruise control works with cam sensor disconnected, but if it changes from current strange operation to total inop., then that tells you what you need to know either way. The c.c. may operate normally with the sensor disconnected, which would mean that it is flaky cam sensor function (vs. complete absence of cam sensor) that affects c.c.

Community experience is that cam sensor issues more often than not result in intermittent shutdowns with no codes. The theory is that the PCM has to see operation with Ďxí counts of bad signal to set a code, but that if it fails just hard enough to stop the engine before reaching that count, then no code (and apparently that recycling the key resets that bad sensor signal counter). It also was learned over time that c.c. not turning on normally, or turning on and unexplainably turning itself off, is often a precursor to hard cam sensor failure. Hence my theory that your symptoms point to, but donít necessarily prove that, there may be a cam sensor or cam sensor circuit issue.

Consider also the possibilities of timing being right on the edge of being off enough to prevent running, or that you may have gotten a bad OEM sensor (it happens; could also be crank sensor, but past forum history says always or almost always itís the cam position sensor). May also be incompletely mated connector giving intermittent wire connection. Demate and re-mate the two rectangular connectors right next to the brake booster, also other PCM and engine connectors. Make sure all are fully mated.

You most likely have removed battery power for several minutes at a time for one reason or another, but if not, wouldnít hurt to do that in case resetting computers will help.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Peva, if I disconnect the cam sensor with the car running, the engine shuts off. With the cam sensor disconnected, after a few cranks the engine runs. I drove it and was getting the cc problem and the stalling.

Last edited by rjlackage; 10-13-2018 at 05:27 PM.
rjlackage is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 09:26 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 15,945
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
OK. That eliminates the cam sensor and its circuit as the problem.
peva is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 09:49 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 267
Feedback: 0 / 0%
   
Would a bad input or output sensor cause stalling? I think it affects cruise control.
codyj is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
I noticed when I am at low speeds (under 10 mph) and the engine stalls, if I jab at the accelerator, the car will jump back to life. Does the throttle position sensor (TPS) have anything to do with the cruise control and could it cause the engine to stall? I'm just thinking out-loud, I have replaced it twice since I've owned the car.
rjlackage is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 01:50 AM
Woober Goobers!

 
Ronbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tiny Pebble, AR
Posts: 48,185
Feedback: 44 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlackage View Post
I noticed when I am at low speeds (under 10 mph) and the engine stalls, if I jab at the accelerator, the car will jump back to life. Does the throttle position sensor (TPS) have anything to do with the cruise control and could it cause the engine to stall? I'm just thinking out-loud, I have replaced it twice since I've owned the car.
So it's not actually stalling? Just the RPMs are low and you think it's stalled?
Ronbo is online now  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post
So it's not actually stalling? Just the RPMs are low and you think it's stalled?
I would call it stalling because I lose power to the steering, the accelerator becomes stiff, the RPMs wind down to zero and the engine is off when it happens at low speeds (under 10 mph or parked). It feels like something electrical randomly cutting power to something that controls the fuel pump for only a second. I thought it might be the ignition switch so I replaced that, but it didn't do anything to solve the problem.

It has only happened twice, but when it was parked, the engine stopped running and with the key in the ON position I heard the fuel pump turn on and off three times in rapid succession. Something similar has happened when I am going 70 mph on the freeway except I think because of my speed, the car restarts itself without any input from me.

I have only witnessed it once while parked where the RPMs went low and I thought the engine was going to shutoff, but it somehow recovered.

I checked the fuel pressure this past weekend and everything seemed fine. It reached 50 psi and did not lose pressure when the engine was shut off. The only thing I noticed was it took a minute to build pressure to be shown on the fuel pressure gauge, but I think that was just the quality of the gauge I loaned from O'Reily, I have seen youtube videos with the gauges instantly showing full pressure and the needle jumping around, mine did not.

I checked much of the wiring however I have not fully traced the fuel pump wires into the engine bay.

Last edited by rjlackage; 10-17-2018 at 02:07 PM.
rjlackage is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 04:00 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 267
Feedback: 0 / 0%
   
Since you have an OBDII car, might be best to use a scan tool to monitor your sensors as you're driving.
codyj is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
I have been monitoring with the OBD scanner when I drive. The MAP sensor is reading 20 kpa when I am coasting, 50 kpa when I am maintaining my speed and 80-90 kpa when I am hard on the accelerator. When I am idle its between 22-35 kpa. Are these numbers normal?
rjlackage is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 04:54 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 267
Feedback: 0 / 0%
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlackage View Post
I have been monitoring with the OBD scanner when I drive. The MAP sensor is reading 20 kpa when I am coasting, 50 kpa when I am maintaining my speed and 80-90 kpa when I am hard on the accelerator. When I am idle its between 22-35 kpa. Are these numbers normal?
Not sure about the others, but idle seems low in pressure. What does the MAP sensor read when the engine is off? Should be around 1 atmosphere, or about 101 kPa...
codyj is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 10
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
It's at 97 kpa with the engine off.
rjlackage is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome