anyone tried the domesticgaskets timing chain/water pump kit? - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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anyone tried the domesticgaskets timing chain/water pump kit?

Hi everyone. I just picked up a '99 and was thinking about getting this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/07-08-Dodge...frcectupt=true

has anyone tried one of these and if so how well did it fit/work?

I've heard this style is an appropriate upgrade to the older/heavier chain that sits closer to the pump housing (and that can wear thru sooner). Is this true?

Any idea what the price differential between this and the genuine Chrysler parts are and where they might be found the cheapest?

I thought the upgrade had a fiber gasket rather than the silicon o-ring and metal spacer gasket. Does the original Chrysler (updated) version have that?

TIA,
-Kvin
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 01:27 PM
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I generally do not recommend *any* aftermarket parts for the 2.7 water pump and chain tensioner because not many (or maybe no) aftermarket 2.7 water pumps are of the later design, which has beefier bearings and do not use the rubber o-ring molded to the thick metal spacer - the two primary failure areas of the 2.7 water pump. Aftermarket "brands" generally buy whichever maker gives them the best deal at each purchase point, so you can't count on getting the type they show in their photos (maybe you can in certain "brands", but how do you know? - and quality may suck anyway).

(BTW - you can't mix and match the new-design thin gasket with the water pump of old or new design that came with the thick gasket, and vice-versa, because the pump is made a different thickness depending on which gasket it comes with. If you do mix them (1) it will warp your timing cover (due to improper spacing off the front of the engine) so it won't seal against the engine - and oil will go everywhere, and your water pump sprocket will not be in plane with all the other sprockets - disaster waiting to happen. Be sure to remove the old gasket - if you don't know it's there, it looks like it's part of the engine block - if you leave it in place and add the new gasket you'll have the same problems as with the wrong thickness gasket - only worse.)

There have been so many threads on here about aftermarket 2.7 chain tensioners either being bad right out of the box or failing very soon after installation that I wouldn't trust any of them. Also, the design of the chain tensioner was changed sometime in the middle of the LH production - after '99, not sure which year, and they changed the design of the head details on how the tensioner attaches. So the tensioner in that kit won't fit on your '99 engine - you need the earlier design tensioner (again - get only the Chrysler part).

You will need new camshaft and crank sprockets to match the chain pitch. I see they are in aftermarket - probably safe to trust them for those. And the left camshaft sprocket will have to have the SBEC tone wheel. So many things to think of in mixing and matching the non-interchangeable design change parts.

So - here's a summary of what you have to do (some things are my preferences/recomendations, some are mandatory due to incompatible design details):

• Water pump of the later beefier design with later-design gasket and with the sprocket for the later-design chain - OEM only.

• Chain (and camshaft and crankshaft sprockets) of later design (you maybe can trust aftermarket for the chain, but if you can get the Chrysler kit that includes new-design chain and sprockets but with SBEC tone wheel to work with your '99 engine, that would be the best deal. (I believe when I got the chain-upgrade kit (several years ago), the water pump and tensioner were not included - had to purchase them separately - that may have changed. Kit included the tensioner arm and chain guide.)

• Old-design tensioner - a must for your '99 engine - OEM only.

• Should replace the timing cover gasket and front main crank seal - aftermarket OK - prefer Felpro kit that includes both.

• Re-use the original secondary chains and tensioner - I don't believe I've ever heard/read of them failing.

• Consider replacing the valve stem seals - Felpro or OEM - inexpensive, but a bit of added labor. They are known for embrittling/wearing out between 100k and 150k miles, and when they do, your engine will be pumping thick smoke out the exhaust at startup and when accelerating, and your oil usage will go *way* up. Ask me how I know. Now's the time to do it while you've got other things in the area apart.

• You might consider installing the aftermarket chain "Stop Block" kit - around $30 on ebay. It limits how far back the tensioner arm can go if the tensioner were to fail to prevent the chain from skipping teeth and crashing your valves. Dan (Daytrepper) doesn't think the kit has much value - we just have a difference of opinion, and I can't swear 100% that I'm right about it. But I see it as cheap insurance if the tensioner collapses.

IMO...

Did I forget anything? You'll find out!!


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs

Last edited by peva; 06-01-2019 at 09:34 PM. Reason: To correct info. about mixing and matching gaskets and water pumps
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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@peva do you have any idea where I can get the updated chain/sprockets/guides kit with the SBEC tone wheel? All the one's I'm finding are the NGC style with the big triangle pointer rather than the SBEC style with the little dot pointer (if that's even the correct way to distinguish them).

I think I can reuse my main tensioner. I've had good luck just cleaning/reconditioning those so far.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinfish View Post
@peva do you have any idea where I can get the updated chain/sprockets/guides kit with the SBEC tone wheel? All the one's I'm finding are the NGC style with the big triangle pointer rather than the SBEC style with the little dot pointer (if that's even the correct way to distinguish them).

I think I can reuse my main tensioner. I've had good luck just cleaning/reconditioning those so far.
It looks like Rock Auto has the actual Mopar kit of exactly that - drill down to ‘Timing Set’ for 2000 Intrepid. It has the SBEC sprocket that the earlier year PCMs require. And that’s with the newer-design chain and sprockets - that’s the purpose of making the kit with the sprockets - to make that conversion.

There are some aftermarket kits there also - some include the secondary chains and tensioners - cheaper than the Mopar kit without the secondary chains and tensioners, so you could just discard those parts. It’s your call on whether you want to chance it with an aftermarket kit to save some green. The water pump and primary tensioner I definitely stand firm on saying ‘no’ to aftermarket. The other timing parts may be OK in aftermarket. But I have to wonder: Do they use inferior metal on the chain so it “stretches” (link holes and pins wear) after a few years? Who knows? Your car - your decision. I plugged the Mopar number from Rock into eBay - about the same price, but shipping is free on eBay.

(I’ll edit my previous post on what I said about not mixing and matching the different design water pumps and their gaskets. Probably not going to affect anything you’re going to do. I just try not to leave incorrect info. out there. Will put the edited part in italics..)


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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@peva yeah, thanks for that. It's looking like those OEM kits are getting pretty rare and no one else is reproducing them which is no bueno for the future of this running gear.

Oh, something else I just learned from another site is that if these engines run as much as 1/2 quart low and are engaged in some spirited cornering their oil pickups can gulp air which can cause the tensioner to collapse sufficiently for them to jump time and what was being recommended is to install an 09 or later pan (with a deeper sump) and pick up tube (and of course the chain-block might help with that too).

Have you ever heard of anyone doing that and if there were any clearance issues with road debris, speed bumps, etc...?
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 09:31 AM
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It looks like you can buy all the parts of the SBEC chain kit individually on Rock Auto as aftermarket parts.

I may have seen some mention of the deeper oil pan over the years, but if I did, I donít remember that.

Unrelated, I think I remember postings of a redesigned OEM pickup tube to go with the original oil pan - slightly shorter for more gap with the bottom of the oil pan so it didnít get obstructed by sludge at the bottom of the pan or something like that. I donít remember if that was for 2.7 or 3.2/3.5.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 10:15 AM
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I searched for posts/threads on the deeper pans and also the redesigned pickup tube. (Advanced search doesnít work here for older posts - only for ones in recent past - not sure why. The Google search feature of the search works better for older discussions, but thereís no way to tailor or narrow those searches down that I know of, so it can be hit or miss.)

Anyway - I didnít come up with anything on the deeper pan, but I did come up with info. about the shorter pickup tube for the 2.7 in Danís super (both in quality and size) thread about maintaining the 2.7. See post no. 11 where he mentions the redesigned pickup tube: https://www.dodgeintrepid.net/18-gen...-7-owners.html
Might be something to upgrade if you donít or canít go with 2009+ pan for whatever reason.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-02-2019, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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@peva I would almost be worried about going with a shorter pick up tube if what I heard is true, that these engines can starve for oil in hard turns at high RPM. I think I'll have the sludge issue under control just watching the coolant level like a hawk, keeping the PCV + oil return passages in the head clean, using Mobil1 0w-40, and increasing the oil capacity by a couple quarts by relocating the filter, increasing its size to a PH8A, adding an inline cooler, and changing it all every 5-6k miles or so. Maybe by having all that increased capacity and a stop-block will make that starvation issue no big deal. I also usually dump a bunch of chemtool into the block the last day or two before an oil change to flush it out real good before I dump it.
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