3.5 Retainer Crankshaft Rear Oil Seal - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: california
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
3.5 Retainer Crankshaft Rear Oil Seal

Part no for this little gem is 4663870, or so it says on the MoparPartsGiant.com website and engine block diagram for a 99 300M 3.5, which is where my 3.5 came from. Part is discontinued; however, they're on ebay, found one for $64, and it supposedly fits a 99 LHS 3.5 engine, and is an OEM part. Problem is, it doesn't look like the rear crankshaft oil seal retainer I took off of my engine. In fact, the part number stamped on the rear crankshaft oil seal retainer I have is 4663871. I found one of those too, problem is its used, albeit in good shape. And 4663871 is listed as a FRONT crankshaft retainer seal on the internet, every listing has it listed as such.
Now for the best part, I thought the rubber gasket was simply a remove and replace, and started to remove some of the rubber gasket. Its quite hard, and a bit brittle, and its not coming out very easy at all, and now I know why, hooraaayyy! The rubber gasket is a permanent part of the retainer. There are rear crankshaft seal kits on ebay, but other than the rear main seal, the other gaskets don't look like they will fit on my seal retainer. Sooooooo, I have a seal retainer, with a hard and brittle rubber gasket that will be a bitch to remove, and no replacement available. I guess its remove it, and purchase some form a gasket, and glob it on! Any other suggestions guys???
anak is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 03:20 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 16,241
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
IIRC, there are previous discussions pretty much confirming what you have concluded - it was redesigned, seal it with RTV.
peva is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: california
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Ok, great, thanks again peva.
anak is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 03:05 AM
Intrepid Modder
 
zerokool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Park city, Ut.
Posts: 684
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
I used this one. MHALE makes parts for OEM's. the green part in the middle is an installation tool to make sure the seal goes on perfectly.
https://www.amazon.com/MAHLE-Origina...+Chrysler+300M
zerokool is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 07:57 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 16,241
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerokool View Post
I used this one. MHALE makes parts for OEM's. the green part in the middle is an installation tool to make sure the seal goes on perfectly.
https://www.amazon.com/MAHLE-Origina...+Chrysler+300M
Does that one have the molded in rubber seal (to seal to the block) or is it like the later design without that? If not I guess itís assumed you add some RTV to seal to the block.
peva is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: california
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
I sure hope so, because I already ordered it, lol! I also noticed on the redesign that the bottom lip has no rubber gasket, as the old design does. Guess they figured the oil pan gasket would seal along the bottom. I'm going to put some RTV there just in case...
anak is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 01:41 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
bh1992's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Osceola, IA
Posts: 6,427
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
Garage
The oil pan gasket is a U shape. The service manual calls for sealant between the ends of the gasket and the rubber seal on the bottom of the rear main seal retainer.

I would also suggest a little sealant along the bottom of the oil pump depending on the condition of that surface. Mine was pitted a little bit and seeped oil for about a week then quit (odd, but I wont complain) and yes, I topped the oil level off.
bh1992 is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: california
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
The old retainer, the one I took off, had a rubber seal on the bottom. It was a continuous rubber seal that went all the way around the retainer. Every redesigned retainer I have seen on ebay, and they are plentiful, has nothing on the bottom. I hope the retainer I ordered from Amazon has a rubber seal...if not, I might as well use the old one. The redesign looks like flimsy metal, while the old retainer is thick cast aluminum, and seems much sturdier.

Good advice on the oil pump, will do, thank you!
anak is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 02:56 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
zerokool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Park city, Ut.
Posts: 684
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by peva View Post
Does that one have the molded in rubber seal (to seal to the block) or is it like the later design without that? If not I guess itís assumed you add some RTV to seal to the block.
the one i got had what appear to be a quality seal, built into the housing that seals to the block. i did however have to use RTV between the oil pan and the RMS.

i dont know whats "a later design" because twice now ive gotten the one with the seal built in. ive seen parts / seals that look like a horseshoe, i even have one, but for the life of me i cant figure out where it goes, it seams to fit nothing, even if my RMS had no seal. plus the silicone/rubber they used looked better then the fiberboard horse shoe thing.

also. ive beat the living shit out of my motor and its not leaking.
zerokool is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 03:00 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
zerokool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Park city, Ut.
Posts: 684
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by anak View Post
The old retainer, the one I took off, had a rubber seal on the bottom. It was a continuous rubber seal that went all the way around the retainer. Every redesigned retainer I have seen on ebay, and they are plentiful, has nothing on the bottom. I hope the retainer I ordered from Amazon has a rubber seal...if not, I might as well use the old one. The redesign looks like flimsy metal, while the old retainer is thick cast aluminum, and seems much sturdier.

Good advice on the oil pump, will do, thank you!
use permatex super black on the oil pan to rear main seal the one you ordered most likely wont have a seal there like the older ones.

prep everything with rubbing alcohol and acetone to disolve all left over grease/oil.

not sure who recomended the rtv at the oil pump but thats not normal. if its pitted then i can see a need for extra RTV but my motor has none, not one bit of rtv anywhere but the back of the oil pan/ RMS.
zerokool is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: california
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Yes, ok, then the new design does need some rtv where it meets the oil pan. My gasket kit actually came with some high temp rtv. I was wondering why, now I know lol!
I know what you mean about that silly horse shoe gasket that seems to come with all of the rear crank seal kits on ebay. It's not even a bit close to the shape of the rear main retainer, and the kits also have a smaller gasket that looks like it will only cover the top 1/4 of the retainer.
I will use the new one you recommended from Amazon, as it has the built in rubber seal. I ordered it first thing this morning. Much appreciated, at $34 out the door, it was MUCH cheaper than anything I found on ebay, or anywhere else.
anak is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 07:50 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
zerokool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Park city, Ut.
Posts: 684
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by anak View Post
Yes, ok, then the new design does need some rtv where it meets the oil pan. My gasket kit actually came with some high temp rtv. I was wondering why, now I know lol!
I know what you mean about that silly horse shoe gasket that seems to come with all of the rear crank seal kits on ebay. It's not even a bit close to the shape of the rear main retainer, and the kits also have a smaller gasket that looks like it will only cover the top 1/4 of the retainer.
I will use the new one you recommended from Amazon, as it has the built in rubber seal. I ordered it first thing this morning. Much appreciated, at $34 out the door, it was MUCH cheaper than anything I found on ebay, or anywhere else.
FYI.
there is a special "alignment tool" for this part (rear main seal)

but from rebuilding a few of these motors i can tell you if you put the seal on, using the green tool (it has a scoop to lift the seal up and onto the crank nub where the flexplate bolts on) then if you turn it like clockwise and counter clockwise (maybe 45-90 degrees) you will feel a smooth rotation, then turn it so the holes for the bolts line up. the idea is not to crush the lower, upper or side of the seal onto the crank. it will leave one side of the seal loser. keep an eye on the RMS as your bolting it down, there is a propensity for it to migrate, or move just a bit.

not hard just needs patience.

im scared to ask, but is the motor in the car still while your doing this?
zerokool is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: california
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
The block is on an engine stand, and its actually on a tool cart now as I had to lift it from the stand onto the cart to have access to the RMS retainer. Its down to just the block and crankshaft. The engine is from a 99 300m, has 95k on it. I recently started a thread titled "3.5 timing belt replacement issues" if you want a history behind why I'm rebuilding this engine. I'm doing a 2.7 to 3.5 swap on a 2000 Intrepid SE with 77k original miles. The 2.7 did the traditional "water pump failure coolant dump into the engine oil", and so I picked it up cheap. I thought the 3.5 would be an easy drop in, but alas, it was not to be. If you look at the end of that timing belt thread, I posted some pictures of the extensive carbon build up. It was so bad the carbon was wedged between the piston and combustion chamber on the number 4 cylinder. I couldn't turn the engine over, and snapped the crank bolt, and thought I was somehow off on my timing, and making a piston to valve contact. Peva warned me about carbon coming loose, and sure enough, he was correct.
I'm not regrinding the crank, just new rod and main bearings. I bought a flex hone to get that 45 degree cross hatch pattern, and put in new rings. I'm lapping the valves, new gaskets/seals, reusing the oil pump, I have a good used wiring harness, new alternator, AC compressor, good used power steering pump, new AC lines, transmission coolant lines, power steering pump lines, new three row all aluminum radiator, etc. The project has gone way over budget already, and I'm not done. My Wife is not impressed. Never thought a 95k engine would have so much carbon built up. But that's the chance you take. Car probably owned by an older couple (hence the fender bender that salvaged the car) and never taken out and opened up or did any high speed operation.
anak is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 10:49 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: california
Posts: 29
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Any recommendations or things to watch out for? Getting back to the RMS installation, there is a dowel on the block to line up the retainer, but only on one side.
anak is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 12:19 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
zerokool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Park city, Ut.
Posts: 684
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by anak View Post
Any recommendations or things to watch out for? Getting back to the RMS installation, there is a dowel on the block to line up the retainer, but only on one side.


you are on the right track, you have things setup for success.

I only wanted you to understand the neuance of the slight movements that can distort the seal. that pin does line up but things need to settle before bolting it down.
zerokool is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome