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3.5 Retainer Crankshaft Rear Oil Seal

2K views 15 replies 4 participants last post by  anak 
#1 ·
Part no for this little gem is 4663870, or so it says on the MoparPartsGiant.com website and engine block diagram for a 99 300M 3.5, which is where my 3.5 came from. Part is discontinued; however, they're on ebay, found one for $64, and it supposedly fits a 99 LHS 3.5 engine, and is an OEM part. Problem is, it doesn't look like the rear crankshaft oil seal retainer I took off of my engine. In fact, the part number stamped on the rear crankshaft oil seal retainer I have is 4663871. I found one of those too, problem is its used, albeit in good shape. And 4663871 is listed as a FRONT crankshaft retainer seal on the internet, every listing has it listed as such.
Now for the best part, I thought the rubber gasket was simply a remove and replace, and started to remove some of the rubber gasket. Its quite hard, and a bit brittle, and its not coming out very easy at all, and now I know why, hooraaayyy! The rubber gasket is a permanent part of the retainer. There are rear crankshaft seal kits on ebay, but other than the rear main seal, the other gaskets don't look like they will fit on my seal retainer. Sooooooo, I have a seal retainer, with a hard and brittle rubber gasket that will be a ***** to remove, and no replacement available. I guess its remove it, and purchase some form a gasket, and glob it on! Any other suggestions guys???
 
#5 ·
Does that one have the molded in rubber seal (to seal to the block) or is it like the later design without that? If not I guess it’s assumed you add some RTV to seal to the block.
 
#6 ·
I sure hope so, because I already ordered it, lol! I also noticed on the redesign that the bottom lip has no rubber gasket, as the old design does. Guess they figured the oil pan gasket would seal along the bottom. I'm going to put some RTV there just in case...
 
#7 ·
The oil pan gasket is a U shape. The service manual calls for sealant between the ends of the gasket and the rubber seal on the bottom of the rear main seal retainer.

I would also suggest a little sealant along the bottom of the oil pump depending on the condition of that surface. Mine was pitted a little bit and seeped oil for about a week then quit (odd, but I wont complain) and yes, I topped the oil level off.
 
#8 ·
The old retainer, the one I took off, had a rubber seal on the bottom. It was a continuous rubber seal that went all the way around the retainer. Every redesigned retainer I have seen on ebay, and they are plentiful, has nothing on the bottom. I hope the retainer I ordered from Amazon has a rubber seal...if not, I might as well use the old one. The redesign looks like flimsy metal, while the old retainer is thick cast aluminum, and seems much sturdier.

Good advice on the oil pump, will do, thank you!
 
#10 ·
use permatex super black on the oil pan to rear main seal the one you ordered most likely wont have a seal there like the older ones.

prep everything with rubbing alcohol and acetone to disolve all left over grease/oil.

not sure who recomended the rtv at the oil pump but thats not normal. if its pitted then i can see a need for extra RTV but my motor has none, not one bit of rtv anywhere but the back of the oil pan/ RMS.
 
#11 ·
Yes, ok, then the new design does need some rtv where it meets the oil pan. My gasket kit actually came with some high temp rtv. I was wondering why, now I know lol!
I know what you mean about that silly horse shoe gasket that seems to come with all of the rear crank seal kits on ebay. It's not even a bit close to the shape of the rear main retainer, and the kits also have a smaller gasket that looks like it will only cover the top 1/4 of the retainer.
I will use the new one you recommended from Amazon, as it has the built in rubber seal. I ordered it first thing this morning. Much appreciated, at $34 out the door, it was MUCH cheaper than anything I found on ebay, or anywhere else.
 
#12 ·
FYI.
there is a special "alignment tool" for this part (rear main seal)

but from rebuilding a few of these motors i can tell you if you put the seal on, using the green tool (it has a scoop to lift the seal up and onto the crank nub where the flexplate bolts on) then if you turn it like clockwise and counter clockwise (maybe 45-90 degrees) you will feel a smooth rotation, then turn it so the holes for the bolts line up. the idea is not to crush the lower, upper or side of the seal onto the crank. it will leave one side of the seal loser. keep an eye on the RMS as your bolting it down, there is a propensity for it to migrate, or move just a bit.

not hard just needs patience.

im scared to ask, but is the motor in the car still while your doing this?
 
#13 ·
The block is on an engine stand, and its actually on a tool cart now as I had to lift it from the stand onto the cart to have access to the RMS retainer. Its down to just the block and crankshaft. The engine is from a 99 300m, has 95k on it. I recently started a thread titled "3.5 timing belt replacement issues" if you want a history behind why I'm rebuilding this engine. I'm doing a 2.7 to 3.5 swap on a 2000 Intrepid SE with 77k original miles. The 2.7 did the traditional "water pump failure coolant dump into the engine oil", and so I picked it up cheap. I thought the 3.5 would be an easy drop in, but alas, it was not to be. If you look at the end of that timing belt thread, I posted some pictures of the extensive carbon build up. It was so bad the carbon was wedged between the piston and combustion chamber on the number 4 cylinder. I couldn't turn the engine over, and snapped the crank bolt, and thought I was somehow off on my timing, and making a piston to valve contact. Peva warned me about carbon coming loose, and sure enough, he was correct.
I'm not regrinding the crank, just new rod and main bearings. I bought a flex hone to get that 45 degree cross hatch pattern, and put in new rings. I'm lapping the valves, new gaskets/seals, reusing the oil pump, I have a good used wiring harness, new alternator, AC compressor, good used power steering pump, new AC lines, transmission coolant lines, power steering pump lines, new three row all aluminum radiator, etc. The project has gone way over budget already, and I'm not done. My Wife is not impressed. Never thought a 95k engine would have so much carbon built up. But that's the chance you take. Car probably owned by an older couple (hence the fender bender that salvaged the car) and never taken out and opened up or did any high speed operation.
 
#16 ·
The MAHLE RMS retainer came in today. Wow, it has the rubber on the back for sealing to the block, and it has a rear main seal already installed, plus the alignment tool. Impressive, especially at a little over 30 bucks! It even has instructions, which pretty much mirror what you were telling me, of course yours were more detailed. Interesting that it says to wait at least 4 hours after installation before starting the engine. This will "allow the seal to adapt perfectly to the new shaft".
Yep, rebuilding engines is fun, but getting all of the parts clean is not.
 
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