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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Can somebody please help, I got down with the intention of changing My water pump and it appears that it was recently changed. But, 2 Things stood out, the 1st being that the Gold Links For Timing are not lined up on the Timing Marks, but I was driving the car with no problems, not even a misfire, so how was Thi possible? That the timing marks are not lined up but the car still drove fine and didn't bend any valves or blow up.. ?

https://youtu.be/NMBW7XFHXww

2nd is I noticed the Timing Chain Guide is loose. Because when I start the car it makes this Wobbly/Chain Slack noise. So, on closer inspection, It seems like it's missing a washer, Luckily I had another 2.7 Disassembled, So I found a washer that is just the correct washer for the Timing guide. But, it still had a tiny bit more play in it, and as such it makes the Timing Chain not be tight like the other side. So, My question is, is the little play left in there normal? Will the Washer that I replaced take care of that chain slack that I hear when I start up the car? Or should I change that Tensioner and Guide anyway? Since I'll be doing the Valve Seals that requires taking them off anyway... ???

https://youtu.be/5dugIw8dles

Guide Washer Replaced, The play is Alot less now, But still somewhat back and forth Slack in it, Would this be considered normal??
https://youtu.be/5DIi9d3TYGY

Please Help.
Thanks.

Last edited by ImpalaWitMe; 08-13-2018 at 02:31 PM.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ImpalaWitMe View Post
Can somebody please help, I got down with the intention of changing My water pump and it appears that it was recently changed. But, 2 Things stood out, the 1st being that the Gold Links For Timing are not lined up on the Timing Marks, but I was driving the car with no problems, not even a misfire, so how was Thi possible? That the timing marks are not lined up but the car still drove fine and didn't bend any valves or blow up.. ?
Your timing marks are lined up; just not in that instance. Once you do the initial timing (gold links all lined up) and run or rotate the engine, it takes several complete rotations (i forget how many and dont feel like doing the math; but its alot) for everything to line back up again. If it was out of time, your engine would have been trashed.

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2nd is I noticed the Timing Chain Guide is loose. Because when I start the car it makes this Wobbly/Chain Slack noise. So, on closer inspection, It seems like it's missing a washer, Luckily I had another 2.7 Disassembled, So I found a washer that is just the correct washer for the Timing guide. But, it still had a tiny bit more play in it, and as such it makes the Timing Chain not be tight like the other side. So, My question is, is the little play left in there normal? Will the Washer that I replaced take care of that chain slack that I hear when I start up the car? Or should I change that Tensioner and Guide anyway? Since I'll be doing the Valve Seals that requires taking them off anyway... ???


Guide Washer Replaced, The play is Alot less now, But still somewhat back and forth Slack in it, Would this be considered normal??


Please Help.
Thanks.
Normal; keep in mind, engine off, you are under spring tension; once engine starts you are at oil pressure tension which is much tighter; now; as for the noise; its hard to tell in the pic if any guides are worn--without them off; or; if the previous mechanic replaced the tensioner when they did the chain/pump; if there is the slightest bit of junk in the tensioner it will cause oil pressure to build up slower and a chain rattle at startup;


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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 08:51 PM
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...it takes several complete rotations (i forget how many and dont feel like doing the math; but its alot) for everything to line back up again...
According to post no. 76 here, 7 rotations: https://www.dodgeintrepid.net/18-gen...g-2-7-a-6.html
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 08:55 PM
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According to post no. 76 here, 7 rotations: https://www.dodgeintrepid.net/18-gen...g-2-7-a-6.html
Nice, thanks Bill.

Those 7 rotations feel like 70 when you are doing it bent under the hood; take the spark plugs out; it helps;
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 09:01 PM
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Definitely! Pulling the plugs relieves the compression. Lots easier!
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, Thanks everyone for coming to My aide. Lol
So, now, I have to do the timing procedure all over again? Sheez!!... I don't even think I feel confident enough to do that, I feel like I'm gonna screw up with all that rotation... 😐😣😣

But, Remember, the car seem to have been in proper timing some kind of way, even without the gold links lining up with the timing marks b/c I was driving the car...... So I was thinking all I had to do was realign the gold links to match up with the timing marks... ? Instead of doing all that 7 Times crank Rotation..... 😕🤔🤔
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 09:24 PM
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Ok, Thanks everyone for coming to My aide. Lol
So, now, I have to do the timing procedure all over again? Sheez!!... I don't even think I feel confident enough to do that, I feel like I'm gonna screw up with all that rotation... 😐😣😣

But, Remember, the car seem to have been in proper timing some kind of way, even without the gold links lining up with the timing marks b/c I was driving the car...... So I was thinking all I had to do was realign the gold links to match up with the timing marks... ? Instead of doing all that 7 Times crank Rotation..... 😕🤔🤔
No, from what I'm reading I dont think you need to re-time.

Do the 7 rotations if you are really that concerned; it would have self-destructed if it was that far out of time.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 09:46 PM
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That's what Dan is saying. Pull the plugs just to make it easier to turn the engine over and then turn the crank about seven revolutions and everything should line right up. It might be less than seven times.

For example: if everything were lined up exactly right and you started to turn the crankshaft, It would take seven revolutions of the crank to bring everything back into alignment.

So, just pull the plugs to make it easier on yourself (you don't have to) and then rotate the crankshaft about seven times. You should see everything come into alignment during those seven turns.
It might not be a full seven turns; you could already be three or four turns into the cycle.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, Thanks Guys. I'm going to do that right now! Hope You guys stand by when I get choked up again. Please... 😛

But, Oh wait, Since I'm planning on changing the Valve Seals, I think I have to change them 1st then do the timing...?? But, according to the procedure I read stated The timing System will not be affected by changing the Valve Seals, Correct?... Just to get a second opinion while am it.

Also, since I'm here I might as well ask this question that I've been pondering since Yesterday, When I rented this Valve spring compressor tool from AutoZone PN #27040. The other write ups on here with the Photos of the Valve compressor tools recommended for doing it have been either taken down or seized when the Photobucket people decided to hold Hostage all the photos people shared in their posts, So I can't see the tools that was recommended for removing the valve springs. I'm worried about the one I got because of the size of the tool and the little space In the heads where/how it'll fit.. So, Idk if I got the right tool.. ? 😕🤔😕
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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turn the crank about seven revolutions and everything should line right up. It might be less than seven times.

For example: if everything were lined up exactly right and you started to turn the crankshaft, It would take seven revolutions of the crank to bring everything back into alignment.

then rotate the crankshaft about seven times. You should see everything come into alignment during those seven turns.
It might not be a full seven turns; you could already be three or four turns into the cycle.
I know I'm a little slow, and probably answered this question in a different sentence but, I'd rather ask again to make sure i Understand rather than Ass-U-Me and then F-Up.
So, Ok just to clarify, I don't need to mess with the sprockets up there, Correct? Don't worry about removing the timing chain from the sprockets, Just leave them as they are (Even though the gold links aren't lined up on their respective timing marks). Just rotate the crank freely 7 times or until it lines up with the timing mark on the oil pump (W/O the T-Chain Connected to It. And Yes, Removing The Spark Plugs) ... Correct?

Because even when I tried to lift one side of the Timing chain, the sprockets starts springing forward on it's own, so I freaked out thinking that I have moved/messed up the timing on the Valves/Cyl Head part.... 😕
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-14-2018, 12:24 AM
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Go by the sketches from the FSM below for timing.

From your photos, I’d guess that the cams on your driver’s side need to rotate at least one tooth CCW to look like the sketches.

That valve spring compressor tool may work. Space around the valves is so limited that older-type compressors won’t fit. Perhaps they’ve had to design the universal tools to fit more than just these engines these days with 4 valves per cylinder being pretty common now.

Pretty sure you have to totally remove the cams to replace the valve stem seals. It’s been a few years since I did mine, but that’s what I remember. When you put the cams back in, notice to count 12 pins between secondary chain cam marks. Also, with the crankshaft sprocket mark lined up with the mark on the oil pump, all 6 pistons are below TDC enough that you are free to rotate the cams as much as you want with the chains off (pistons 1 and 4 will be 60 ATDC, 2 and 5 will be at 60 BTDC, and 3 and 6 will be at BDC).

I highly recommend using the trick of filling up the cylinders one at a time with 3/16” rope and rotating the crank to press the piston up against the rope vs. using compressed air to hold the valves up as you do each cylinder.

I have a couple of reasons to recommend the rope trick: (1) Not everybody has an air compressor handy, and even if you do, it prevents problems if you lose power or the compressor craps out in the middle of the job, and (2) it prevents carbon in the cylinders from swelling up from absorbing moisture in the compressed air and creating piston/valve interference (happened to me when I did mine with compressed air - had to pour Sea Foam into each cylinder to soften up and dissolve the carbon before the first startup to prevent damaging the engine - vacuumed the Sea Foam and carbon out with a shop vac and small vinyl hose stuck thru the spark plug hole).







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Last edited by peva; 08-21-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, what happened to the Pics/Sketches?? 🤔
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 04:12 PM Thread Starter
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Go by the sketches from the FSM below for timing.

That valve spring compressor tool may work. Space around the valves is so limited that older-type compressors won’t fit. Perhaps they’ve had to design the universal tools to fit more than just these engines these days with 4 valves per cylinder being pretty common now
So there's no easier/better valve spring compressor that anyone can recommend in order not to make this job a nightmare for Me? 🤔😕
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-21-2018, 09:16 PM
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This should work: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Valve-Sprin...edirect=mobile


Ill see what I can do to recover the sketches. They are right out of the FSM on the 2.7 timing chain section.
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