2001 2.7 swap into 98 with dead 2.7 - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
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2001 2.7 swap into 98 with dead 2.7

I have two Intrepids a 98 with a blown 2.7 and a wrecked 2001 with a good running 2.7 although I haven't seen it run I am told it runs good

Any way I have the 01 2.7 out and on the shop floor I have to get it off the lift and the 98 on the lift today and start pulling the dead 2.7

I am doing this swap for my Neighbor hes 73 and on a very limited income I am not charging him I am doing it for free AGAIN I am not making one dime off this....

I am a Aircraft mechanic by trade not a car mechanic I restore OLD cars as a Hobby so My neighbor thinks I am this Master mechanic That fixes jets for a living and Fixes cars in my free time He has no idea I keep trying to tell him these new cars are just as sophisticated as the jets I work on but he doesn't believe me. any way I need a bit of help is there any one out there that can answer my questions?


Can this swap be done?

Is it a direct swap just plug in and run?

I am very worried the Cam sensors are diffrent? and this whole swap wont work

My original thoughts were to swap intakes and the engine wiring harnesses and plugging it all in and seeing if it runs but I dont like uncertainty


Thanks in advance for ANY help

Dennis
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 11:38 AM
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Direct swap, as long as the new engine is not older than 01. Plug and play. Wont have to swap any harnesses or anything. The only thing you may have to change is the crankshaft sensor, the 01 will have the newer style. That is just a matter of buying an 01 crankshaft sensor and installing it.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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OH Man thats so cool thank you! for the info!

I was worried as things appear diffrent Intake coil packs and such
I was extremely worried that the cam sensors were diffrent!

I think I am going to tell owner the good news but also explain that NOW is the time to do a NEW timing chains and a NEW Water pump as well and he should have a trouble free 2.7 for a long while.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 04:38 PM
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Idk about trouble free I wish the best for his but I have had 4 2.7l in my 99 intrepid n ow with 27,000 miles on the fourth I have a rod knock n swaping it out for the 3.5ho. There are a lot of oil issues with the 2.7. I hope the best for him honestly not trying to be negitive here just hope my issues don't happen to him
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OH Man thats so cool thank you! for the info!

I was worried as things appear diffrent Intake coil packs and such
I was extremely worried that the cam sensors were diffrent!

I think I am going to tell owner the good news but also explain that NOW is the time to do a NEW timing chains and a NEW Water pump as well and he should have a trouble free 2.7 for a long while.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 06:32 PM
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while you have that 01 2.7 on the floor i would seriously think about doing a waterpump replacement on......i received a running donor motor and apond breaking it down discovered the waterpump was just about shot.....you can refer to my right up on it........https://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=190291
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 06:49 PM
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I would also highly recommend a waterpump swap with the newer unit. Waterpumps are the biggest reason 2.7s fail.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-23-2010, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Hi guy's
Thanks for the kind words

I am going to do the Water pump, probably do the chain too.


But I cant do the bigger engine swap as the owner just has this one new engine, He's 73 and on a limmited tight budget with no money I will have to buy the water pump and gaskets for it! other wise I will put it together and it will blow up and then I will be the no good mechanic.



By the way this web sight rocks with all the info!
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 08-24-2010, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Just Talked too owner as I knew Has no money! needs to borrow it.... ARG!

Told him not too I would take care of it I'm sort of fool aren't I?


OK well I just priced the Parts out from Carquest 350+ If I get a timing chain more....


OK who do I know for sure has the updated oil pump with the raised oil pick up?????


Who also sells the water pump with the updated heavy duty bearing?????


Thinking I might have the head gaskets done too and have valves lapped and new gaskets for him too there goes another 500....... I'm a dumb asss But I want to make sure it lasts at least 50K miles I dont want too see this car back in my shop ever again!
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Time for an update and well Im just getting back too this project its been on hold for extra cash.

I picked up a new water pump and thats on trying to do Timing chain now but looks like my crank shaft has somehow been turned 90 degrees.

When I pulled it apart cam gears were lined up with gold links and crank shaft mark was being followed by gold link.

I have stopped and am resetting secondary chain tensions and setting all 4 cams strait up Both round dots on cam gears at 12 to heads then set crank gear directly at oil pump mark then through primary chain on .....Does all this sound right too you guys ????

Pleas can some one PLEASE supply pictures of all the correct timing marks my ELCHEAPO Chilton/Haynes isn't showing me or telling me squat!!!!!!!!!
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 07:20 PM
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See FSM FTW.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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See FSM FTW.
You lost me there pal

I got the Chain on today I think I did it right I think??????

First I reset all 4 cams so all 4 dots from the 4 cam cam gears were strait up with there colored links over the tops of the dots, and then locked the cams into place.

Then I lined up the Crank gear grove too the Diamond on the oil pump.

I then lined up the Primary chain with its two cam gears timing marks with there colored links and hung them on the cams making sure the colored link stayed over the grove in the crank gear.
Followed by installing the remaining chain guides and the tension-er.

I then made sure the primary chain colored links still lined up with both cam gears and the crank gear grove and then released the tension-er again making sure every thing was lined up I proceeded too take up the slack in the chain on the right side of the engine and then proceed with aligning the Right cam too the cam gear turning the cam too align the cam bolt holes with the gear holes wich was really close any way I then proceeded too do the left cam (the cam the sensor goes too) aligning the cam bolt holes too the gears holes now this side the cam needed to be turned a lot more than the other so I am a little worried at this point that maybe I didnt do something right, although It all looks really close if not dead on too whats in that haynes manual I have.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 10:09 PM
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maybe this will help



TIMING CHAIN

1. Inspect all sprockets (4),(9),(11) and chain guides (2),(5),(10). Replace if worn.
2. For crankshaft sprocket installation procedures (Refer to 09 - Engine/Engine Block/CRANKSHAFT - Installation) .
3. If removed, install the right and left side short chain guides (10). Tighten attaching bolts to 28 Nm (250 in. lbs.).
4. Align the crankshaft sprocket timing mark to the mark on the oil pump housing (3).

NOTE: Lubricate timing chain and guides with engine oil before installation.
5. Place the left side primary chain sprocket onto the chain so that the timing mark is located in between the two (plated) timing links (1).
6. Lower the primary chain with the left side sprocket through the left cylinder head opening.

NOTE: The camshaft sprockets can be allowed to float on the camshaft hub during installation.
7. Loosely position the left side camshaft sprocket over the camshaft hub.
8. Align the timing (plated) link to the crankshaft sprocket timing mark (3).
9. Position the primary chain onto the water pump drive sprocket (11).
10. Align the right camshaft sprocket timing mark to the timing (plated) link on the timing chain (8) and loosely position over the camshaft hub.
11. Verify that all chain timing (plated) links are properly aligned to the timing marks on all sprockets.
12. Install the left side lower chain guide (2) and tensioner arm (5). Tighten attaching bolts to 28 Nm (250 in. lbs.).

NOTE: Inspect the O-ring on the chain guide access plugs before installing. Replace the O-ring as necessary.
13. Install the chain guide access plugs to the cylinder heads. Tighten plugs to 20 Nm (15 ft. lbs.).

NOTE: To reset the primary timing chain tensioner, engine oil will first need to be purged from the tensioner.
14. Purge oil from the timing chain tensioner using the following procedure: a. Place the check ball (2) end of the tensioner into the shallow end of Chain Tensioner Gauge 8186 (3).
b. Using hand pressure, slowly depress the tensioner until oil is purged from the tensioner.
15. Reset the timing chain tensioner using the following procedure: a. Position the cylinder plunger (4) into the deeper end of Chain Tensioner Gauge 8186 (3).
b. Apply a downward force until tensioner is reset .

NOTE: If oil was not first purged from the tensioner, use slight finger pressure to assist the center arm pin of Chain Tensioner Gauge 8186 to unseat the tensioner's check ball.

CAUTION: Ensure the tensioner is properly reset. The tensioner body (4) must bottom against the top edge of Chain Tensioner Gauge 8186 (3). Failure to properly perform the resetting procedure may cause tensioner jamming.

NOTE: Inspect the tensioner O-ring (2) for nicks or cuts and make sure the snap ring (1) is correctly installed, replace as necessary.

16. Install the reset chain tensioner (1) into the right cylinder head.
17. Position tensioner retaining plate (2) and tighten bolts (3) to 12 Nm (105 in. lbs.).
18. Starting at the right cylinder bank, first position the camshaft damper (1) (if equipped) on the camshaft hub, then insert a 3/8 square drive extension with a breaker bar into the intake camshaft drive hub. Rotate the camshaft until the camshaft hub aligns to the camshaft sprocket and damper attaching holes. Install the sprocket attaching bolts and tighten to 28 Nm (250 in. lbs.).
19. Insert a 3/8 square drive extension with a breaker bar into the intake camshaft drive hub and rotate the camshaft until the sprocket attaching bolts can be installed. Tighten the sprocket bolts to 28 Nm (250 in. lbs.).
20. Rotate the crankshaft slightly clockwise to remove timing chain slack, if necessary.
21. Activate the timing chain tensioner by using a flat bladed pry tool to gently pry tensioner arm towards the tensioner slightly. Then release the tensioner arm. Verify the tensioner is activated (extends).
22. Install the camshaft position sensor (2) and connect the electrical connector.
23. Install the timing chain cover, crankshaft vibration damper and accessory drive belt (Refer to 09 - Engine/Valve Timing/COVER(S) , Engine Timing - Installation).
24. Install the cylinder head covers (Refer to 09 - Engine/Cylinder Head/COVER(S) , Cylinder Head - Installation)
25. Install the upper intake manifold and air cleaner housing assembly (Refer to 09 - Engine/Manifolds/MANIFOLD, Intake - Installation)
26. Connect the negative battery cable and tighten nut to 5 Nm (45 in. lbs.).
27. Fill the cooling system (Refer to 07 - Cooling - Standard Procedure) .

NOTE: After installation of a reset tensioner, engine noise will occur after initial start-up. This noise will normally disappear within 510 seconds.
28. Operate the engine until it reaches normal operating temperature. Check cooling system for correct fluid level (Refer to 07 - Cooling - Standard Procedure)

NOTE: The Cam/Crank Variation Relearn procedure must be performed anytime there has been a repair/replacement made to a powertrain system, for example: flywheel, valvetrain, camshaft and/or crankshaft sensors or components (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure)
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Starting at step 18 in those instructions is what I am talking about.....

They Don't say were the Cams should be before turning them to align with the Cam gear.


I have done dual over head cams on lots of cars even a Ferrari and Have always had clear descriptions of the cam Timing marks. and the starting point of timing all four cams then the Belts or belt or chain.
Here with this engine no!

On the left head the head that has the cam sensor I had two diffrent sets of timing marks on the cam gears!
I have Triangles and dots! The dots were the same as the right head set of cams so I chose to use those although I was tempted to use the triangles

My book doesnt say or show wich set too use OR even show them clearly at all.

Nor does the book say that too set up the Main Timing chain that the secondary Cam chains must be properly set first! Too start this is a Major problem!
Let me just find the guys who wrote the book better yet the engineer that designed this poorly thought out system.


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Are you around today? Please send me your personal phone number in a private message I would like to talk with you.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrepCruzin View Post
NOTE: The Cam/Crank Variation Relearn procedure must be performed anytime there has been a repair/replacement made to a powertrain system, for example: flywheel, valvetrain, camshaft and/or crankshaft sensors or components (Refer to 28 - DTC-Based Diagnostics/MODULE, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Standard Procedure)
What are they talking about doing here?????
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-22-2010, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Trep
Does your book show the Cam timming marks the ones in the heads themselves?
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