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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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powerband question

i have a question about the powerband in my intrepid,

i just finished installing a 01 300m 3.5ho motor into my 99 that had a 2.7....

at what RPMs should my powerband be @? sometimes it feels like it kicks in at differant times, sometimes around 3500 n sometimes around 4200....

i have a 01 300m 3.5ho motor with the k&n intake ASP underdrive pulley intake manifold spacer and a aftermarket exhaust..
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 09:38 PM
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not sure a "power band" really apllies to these cars. its not like on a motocross bike which i believe is where you are more familiar with that term
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 09:54 PM
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you just did the swap recently so the pcm and the tcm will need to relearn and that is anywere from 100 - 250 miles before you can realize the cars full potential
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-29-2010, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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is there a better pcm or tcm i can get that will work better with the 300m 3.5ho motor?
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-01-2010, 08:28 AM
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when all is said and done you'll feel the car start at around 2500(lightly) and continue to gain power through about 5000 then hold steady to about 6000, at least thats my experience.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-03-2010, 06:21 PM
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Anytime you put in a new engine, the computer has to readjust. It just takes time. KSA is dead on with how my 2.7 trans was so if you kept the trans and just replaced the motor, that is about what you should expect. Our launches blow, but our passing gears aren't too shabby.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-06-2010, 12:00 AM
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The trasmissions in these cars require being hooked up to a DBR scan tool and need to be put into relearn mode with it.
They don't reprogram on there own.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-06-2010, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by clearthalane View Post
The trasmissions in these cars require being hooked up to a DBR scan tool and need to be put into relearn mode with it.
They don't reprogram on there own.
The collective wisdom here says that over time, the controls will adjust themselves, but that a quick learn using DRB tool will get it there quicker. Are you saying that it will *not* gradually adjust itself? Are you talking about clutch volume indices, or are you talking about other parameters?
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-06-2010, 12:55 AM
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The trasmissions in these cars require being hooked up to a DBR scan tool and need to be put into relearn mode with it.
They don't reprogram on there own.
Hmm..seems every time is disconnect the battery on my 2002 Special..the transmission seems to shift "funny" for around 50 miles or so. After that all is good. I'll bet that's "relearn" mode..but what do i know!
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-06-2010, 02:56 AM
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Hmm..seems every time is disconnect the battery on my 2002 Special..the transmission seems to shift "funny" for around 50 miles or so. After that all is good. I'll bet that's "relearn" mode..but what do i know!
I will X2 on that one mine does the same damn thing.

It took me ah few times to catch on to that one.

Last edited by crypt keeper; 12-10-2010 at 08:11 PM.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 08:08 PM
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As others have pointed out, there's no significant "power band" on these cars. Actually, it's the wrong way to use the term; power band is a term describing the torque curve over the entire operational rpm range of an engine. i.e. you can say: a power band is wide, narrow, or peaky.

On the 3.5 HO, the torque curve is generally pretty flat up till 2700 rpm, then there's a dip from 2800 - 3400, where the torque drops and the car feels flat. At 3500 rpm, an increase in torque occurs, and sustains up to around 4800. Around 4800, the SRV kicks in and causes a momentary dip in torque, that'll be later made up past 5500 rpm (versus no SRV). The engine continues pulling, in a lackluster fashion, up till around 6400 rpm. The pull won't be anywhere close to 3500 - 4800.

It's not a bad engine, but outdated technology by modern standards. A 3.6 Pentastar, 3.6 GM direct injection, or 3.7 Ford, would have a much more desireable power band. They have strong torque right off idle, and hold it all the way to near redline. No dips and hicupps in the middle. I often dream about a Pentastar and 6 spd in my Trep before the alarm clock rings...

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-11-2010, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ View Post
As others have pointed out, there's no significant "power band" on these cars. Actually, it's the wrong way to use the term; power band is a term describing the torque curve over the entire operational rpm range of an engine. i.e. you can say: a power band is wide, narrow, or peaky.

On the 3.5 HO, the torque curve is generally pretty flat up till 2700 rpm, then there's a dip from 2800 - 3400, where the torque drops and the car feels flat. At 3500 rpm, an increase in torque occurs, and sustains up to around 4800. Around 4800, the SRV kicks in and causes a momentary dip in torque, that'll be later made up past 5500 rpm (versus no SRV). The engine continues pulling, in a lackluster fashion, up till around 6400 rpm. The pull won't be anywhere close to 3500 - 4800.

It's not a bad engine, but outdated technology by modern standards. A 3.6 Pentastar, 3.6 GM direct injection, or 3.7 Ford, would have a much more desireable power band. They have strong torque right off idle, and hold it all the way to near redline. No dips and hicupps in the middle. I often dream about a Pentastar and 6 spd in my Trep before the alarm clock rings...
i dont wanna sound stupid but what is "SRV" thanks
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-11-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ View Post
As others have pointed out, there's no significant "power band" on these cars. Actually, it's the wrong way to use the term; power band is a term describing the torque curve over the entire operational rpm range of an engine. i.e. you can say: a power band is wide, narrow, or peaky.

On the 3.5 HO, the torque curve is generally pretty flat up till 2700 rpm, then there's a dip from 2800 - 3400, where the torque drops and the car feels flat. At 3500 rpm, an increase in torque occurs, and sustains up to around 4800. Around 4800, the SRV kicks in and causes a momentary dip in torque, that'll be later made up past 5500 rpm (versus no SRV). The engine continues pulling, in a lackluster fashion, up till around 6400 rpm. The pull won't be anywhere close to 3500 - 4800.

It's not a bad engine, but outdated technology by modern standards. A 3.6 Pentastar, 3.6 GM direct injection, or 3.7 Ford, would have a much more desireable power band. They have strong torque right off idle, and hold it all the way to near redline. No dips and hicupps in the middle. I often dream about a Pentastar and 6 spd in my Trep before the alarm clock rings...
the main reason for the lackluster as you call it in preformance lays really on the the transmission technology of the a606 setup that has been round for almost 2 decades starting with the a604. what is really bring out the true potential of the Pentastar is a couple of things not only is the new 6 speed transmission being one of the largest factors (until it's eliminated by the 8 speed ZF transmission) and the movement to incorportate MultiAir to work in conjuction with the sophisticated variable cam timing to really boost low end torque of the Pentastar. Those 2 and really the transmission setup are what imo bring out the preformance numbers being seen on this engine.

bottom line it is a win win......it's to bad we won't see it in our cars......
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-11-2010, 11:54 AM
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As others have pointed out, there's no significant "power band" on these cars.
thank you
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-12-2010, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TrepCruzin View Post
the main reason for the lackluster as you call it in preformance lays really on the the transmission technology of the a606 setup that has been round for almost 2 decades starting with the a604. what is really bring out the true potential of the Pentastar is a couple of things not only is the new 6 speed transmission being one of the largest factors (until it's eliminated by the 8 speed ZF transmission) and the movement to incorportate MultiAir to work in conjuction with the sophisticated variable cam timing to really boost low end torque of the Pentastar. Those 2 and really the transmission setup are what imo bring out the preformance numbers being seen on this engine.

bottom line it is a win win......it's to bad we won't see it in our cars......
When I analyze performance, I like to isolate one factor at a time; in this case, strictly the engine itself. You'll notice that throughout my entire post, never once did I mention the vehicle's acceleration. I could be talking about the 3.5 used in a bulldozer as far as powerband is concerned.

Yes, of course, a fast shifting, 6 - 8 speed transmission, will mask a narrow power band, as you'll always be kept in the "sweet spot", provided you have one in the first place.

Example, an 8 spd will keep the 3.5 between 5000 to 6400 at WOT. But what good is that when our engine is still relatively weak at that rpm? This inheritant weakness can only be fixed with variable valve/cam timing, better intake / exhaust porting, and perhaps direct injection - pretty much what Pentastar is in the near future.

There's a reason Chrysler won't be offering the 8 spd ZF with a 3.3 anytime soon...

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