Speedometer Correction for 02+ - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Speedometer Correction for 02+

I'm looking into the 3.89 gear install but I know that us 02+ treps have to have the speedo correction because putting in the gears cause like a 6% diff in the reading. Well, I'm in talks with two different companies Yellr who makes the yellow box & Heal Tech Electronics who make the SpeedoHealer. The guy I'm talking to from Heal Tech has said this after I asked him for a SpeedoHealer for us 02+ treps "We don't have any technical information about your car, unfortunately. Basically we need to know what kind of speed sensor it has.
At first, if possible, please check whether it has a 2-wire or 3w speed
sensor. If you have a wiring diagram, that may help."

98-Eser had told me "Neither. The speed is computed from the tranny sensors, the signal goes to the PDM/TCM box, and then via electric wire to the speedo." So this is what I told Heal Tech & Yellr.

The employee from Yellr had said, "The transmission sensors are normally either a 2-wire or 3-wire sensor. What does your sensor look like?" But the guy from Heal Tech told me to do this "Ok, set a voltmeter in DC 20V setting.
Turn ignition on but have the engine off. Rotate the drive shaft slowly.
Measure the voltage on the signal wire that goes to the speedometer.
Does the voltage cycle from e.g. 0V to 5V repeatedly, when the shaft is rotated?"

Here are the wiring diagrams:



Does anyone have an answer to my confusion?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 05:10 PM
 
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It is very unlikely that they are going to be able to make you a box. They arew still thinking our cars are like others where this is a signal sent directly to the speedometer. This is not the case. 98-ESer was correct. The speed is computed by the tranny sensor and then goes to the PCM, and I bleieve it is then sent to the BCM and on to the cluster through the PCI bus. So basically, there is no "speed signal" wire. The speed is computes and displayed through a series of proprietary digital communications.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 05:31 PM
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Well the input/output sensors themselves are 2 wire type sensors. The TCM is providing some type of voltage to the sensor and a ground. I'm not sure what the voltage is though. There's 12vdc provided to the TCM via the battery(actually over 13vdc normally). Whether the TCM steps that voltage down to 5VDC internally and provides it to the sensor I don't know either. About the only way to find out is to measure the voltage at one or both of the sensors. For the Input sensor it's the Red/Black wire and for the output it would be the Light Green/White wire. You'd have to have the ignition on and the engine not running and rotate the front wheel to see how high the voltage goes.
I looked thru my Transmission Diagnostic manual but there's absolutely no info on what the sense voltage is. All the troubleshooting pertains to the DRB III and whether the ground circuit is open or shorted to battery.

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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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So Ronbo, what your saying is that if the TCM does step the voltage down to 5VDC and goes to the sensor then they may be able to make a box? And how do I get to the sensors? The haynes manual says nothing about getting to the sensors.

Last edited by Gh0stAce23; 01-17-2007 at 09:36 PM.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 09:53 PM
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They might claim to be able to make a box but I'm not sure how they'll implement it. The speed is read off the output speed sensor only. The PCM/TCM depending on model year takes that sensor output and transfers it over the PCI bus to the Instrument cluster(a single wire). That's why you see the threads with a trans going into limp mode with no speedo indicator then it's the output sensor. The PCM/TCM is looking at both the input and output sensors to see what's going on inside the transmission. Things like if a certain gear is selected it better see a certain reading on the input sensor and a certain reading on the output sensor or into limp mode it goes.
Here's a link to another thread with a picture of the sensor locations on the transmission: Trans Sensor Location courtesy of JoeKD.
I think the boxes these guys build are for cars that have a single specific output to the speedo. On our LH cars many functions are broadcast out to different modules at the same time across the single wire PCI bus. Each module waits for it's info to be addressed specifically to it and processes it. The ABS module knows to wait for it's address to be broadcast before taking data off the bus and the Instrument cluster and other modules do the same thing. That may be why these two vendors don't have existing info for something that's already built.

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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 10:06 PM
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Here's some info from another thread about a member that sold parts and a box is mentioned. Dscruggs FS thread
Take a look at the listing at the bottom of his first post and also at #13. You might PM him to see if he can give you more detailed info on what it was and what was involved in installing it.

It looks to be this item here:Abbott ERA

Last edited by Ronbo; 01-17-2007 at 10:10 PM.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Alright. I can see why they can't make one now. But is there any way to correct the speedometer? My brother in law and I were just talkin about installing the 3.89 gears and slappin' some 18's to make up for it
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 10:27 PM
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Check with Abbott and Dscruggs to see what was done there. Remember that the LH cars regardles of whether they had 15,16,17 or 18" wheels all had stock tire sizes that were just about the same overall diameter outside. You could probably juggle 18" tire sizes to make up for the 6% difference, but the diameter might end up being too big to properly fit without physical interference. I'm not sure whether you need to go up or down in size to compensate. Do a search on tire size calculators and you should find a few threads dealing with that part of it. The only other way is to find a 300m Special PCM for 2002 or later and they all had SKIm so you'd need that and the keys that went with it along with preferably the BCM as a set. Tough to find from a single wrecked car.

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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 10:51 PM
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Check out this thread which is discussing basically your question: Speedo correction

On page 3 there's mention of a tire size calculator to check on compensated tire sizes. Using it and going with the stock 18" tire size of 245/45-18...you could use a 245/55-18 tire to make up the 7% difference for the speedometer. Whether those will fit without rubbing or interference is not known. That might be in the territory of the magnum wheels with stock tire sizes that people have interference with.
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-17-2007, 11:03 PM
 
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The problem is, by changing the tire diameter to correct the speedo, you're changing your final ratio back to where it was thereby cancelling out any gain from the new gears. I considered that as an option as well, and when I proposed it that fact was pointed out and it does make sense. I honestly think your best bet is just doing the conversion that hardwareguy just did with the special pcm.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-18-2007, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
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But didn't hardware guy have to get the keys & the SKIm as well like Ronbo said?
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 10:51 PM
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I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned that other thread where it was said that you can take the car to the dealer and have them change the ratio stored in your computer with the DRB3. It'll run like $70 or something, but some of those speedo correction boxes run over $100. Pay the dealer $70 and slip the tech $20 to open up your governor
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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if the tech will do that...and has any1 done that?
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-20-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04IntrepidSXT
I can't believe someone hasn't mentioned that other thread where it was said that you can take the car to the dealer and have them change the ratio stored in your computer with the DRB3. It'll run like $70 or something, but some of those speedo correction boxes run over $100. Pay the dealer $70 and slip the tech $20 to open up your governor
This has been discussed several times before. The only thing they can/will tap into is the pinion factor setting which has a limited number of tire/rim size settings which only corrects for about 2%. I have not heard of anyone to date that the dealer has eliminated the governor though some have tried.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-21-2007, 02:23 AM
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Maybe if swapping to the special pcm is the solution, you can have the dealership load that program into your pcm? Assuming the pcm is where that gear ratio is stored or determined.

And I know about the dealer and the speed governor. I was just joking about that part.
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