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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-12-2004, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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U.S. proposes standards for auto data recorders

From Automotive News:

U.S. proposes standards for auto data recorders
Reuters / June 11, 2004

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. government wants to standardize information collected by automobile data recorders and make the results more widely accessible, regulators said Thursday.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration hopes its proposed regulation, introduced after seven years of study, will dramatically improve the quality of accident investigations, especially on crash severity and seat belt function, and lead to safety improvements.

"EDRs are in most new vehicles and are already providing valuable safety information for our crash investigators and researchers," said Dr. Jeffrey Runge, the safety agency administrator.

The government estimates that 30 million vehicles on U.S. roads are equipped with recorders.

"It's a recognition that the car is not dumb; it has a lot of smart information that can help us out," said Dr. Ricardo Martinez, a Runge predecessor at the traffic safety agency in the 1990s. Martinez heads an Atlanta firm that has developed an advanced EDR device.

The National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates transportation accidents, has long advocated the benefits of auto recorders. The board relies heavily on similar devices, known as "black boxes," in airline and rail accidents.

While automakers equip vehicles with the technology, what recorders monitor can vary. The proposed regulation wants, at minimum, data on airbag deployment, speed, engine performance, braking, safety belt use as well as other key mechanical parameters.

Use of event recorder information has been controversial and mainly accessible by law enforcement authorities or others -- in concert with automakers -- with technology to download and "read" the complex data.

The government wants to make the information simpler to extract and more widely available to the public and its own safety experts.

The majority of automakers have proposed that data, in most cases, only be accessible to the vehicle owner.

"Up until now, we've solely considered the (EDR) value in terms of research and things we can learn with regard to crashes to help design and develop occupant protection features," said Jim Schell, a spokesman for General Motors.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 12:56 AM
 
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Does anyone know what vehicles already have these recorders. I heard that some Yukon XL's have them. Their is even a story of a teen driving one had an accident told the police her story but the data recorder had a different series of events so the accident end up being her fault.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 03:31 AM
 
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Say goodbye to what driving freedoms we had because Big Brother (and Big Sister, the insurance company) is moving in!

Quote:
Originally posted by SilverTREP02
Does anyone know what vehicles already have these recorders. I heard that some Yukon XL's have them. Their is even a story of a teen driving one had an accident told the police her story but the data recorder had a different series of events so the accident end up being her fault.
I think most GMs have had them for years now. I think Patrick Bedard in his monthly Car and Driver article did a little thing about it a few years ago.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 03:54 AM
 
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I read or seen somewhere that Progressive Insurance have been testing the device in some cars of volunteers. I believe that it records like the blackbox mentioned above but it also integrates things like GPS tracking if the car is stolen and notice to emergency services in the event of an accident (kinda like on-star). What they had said is that they are looking to install these on cars on a voluntary basis and giving those customers a discount.
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 04:13 AM
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I wonder if them being able to see if your speeding or not would be a violation of your rights.

--Gorm
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 05:11 AM
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Data collection should only be ok for information purposes to manufacturers to help build safer cars. Defenitely not insurance companies who want to find another way to rape you.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 05:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by gormo66
I wonder if them being able to see if your speeding or not would be a violation of your rights.

--Gorm

A few years ago there was a case out on the East Coast about this very issue. A rental car company had GPS tracking installed in their cars and they actually tracked how fast the drivers were driving. Apparently the drivers would turn their cars back in and get slapped with a huge ass penalty. There was a slight clause in the contract stating that if they broke any laws, they could be charged extra for wrecklessness.

There was a driver in particular that drove the rental car in excess of 100 mph for an extended period of time. The rental agency was able to provide proof of how fast the car was travelling with GPS data. OWN3D!!

The renters took them to court and I believe that certain State's Supreme Court ruled in the favor of the renters. I can't remember the exact reason why though.
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 09:24 AM
 
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Imagine getting a ticket in the mail, stating that the highway monitoring system tracked you exceeding the posted speed limit from 2:42PM until 2:48PM on Friday January 5th on rte. 34. Here's your bill for $345.

Ever see the program parents can buy that tracks their teens out driving around? They can sit at their PC, with a display of gages in front of them, and position coordinates. The gages are a generic dashboard layout, but show speed, rpms, etc.

The only good to come? Accident re-creation. I remember reading where a guy creamed two young girls who were backing out of their driveway. Killed both of them. At first, because they were backing up, blame was placed on the girl driving. The guy claimed he was only doing XXmph, but then the data recorder showed he was driving more than double the speed limit. Not only that, but he did not begin to even hit his brake until fractions of a second before impact, indicating not only was he speeding, but either driving recklessly or inattentively, and did not see her up ahead of him. If he wasn't speeding and was paying attention, he could have stopped in time.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-13-2004, 10:41 AM
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If I'm not mistaken the only GM that is using it now is the Corvette. Basically it shows speed and how much braking force that was applied to the car.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-14-2004, 09:31 PM
 
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I wouldn't mind having a "black box" that recorded things such as speed, braking/acceleration, and other things that would be helpful in determing fault and cause of an accident. But, you really only need the last 30 seconds or so to determine that. "Live" feed would be bullshit.

Hey, if you get into an accident and you were speeding and that was a contributing factor to the accident, you deserve to get fined. But to be monitored 24/7 and get a ticket in the mail is bullshit.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 12:36 AM
 
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IF the information is available, someone who wants it will be able to get their hands on it.

I see an aftermarket coming for disabling such devices, followed shortly by laws making it illegal to do so.

Welcome to Amerika!
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-15-2004, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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With red light and speed radar cameras in the Maryland area
generating significant revenue, it's only a matter of time I think before we see them everywhere.
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