No Crank Issue After Starter Install - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Bucky83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 54
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
No Crank Issue After Starter Install

Ok, as of Christmas Eve, the new (used) 300 starter is not working (no solenoid click or anything). There were no issues with it until I went out to start it that night. Right away I was kicking myself in the butt for not quadruple-checking the connections before re-installing the motor mount (I actually did triple-check). It actually acted like the Park/Neutral switch was killing the ignition switch.

Here is a checklist of what I have done to trouble-shoot thus far:

Verified that the starter relay in the engine compartment was functioning (single click) as the key was turned.

Swapped a matching relay from one of the other locations and ended with the same result. (single click)

I did NOT take a signal voltage reading at the relay

All engine compartment fuses appeared good. (I will test with a meter tomorrow)

Verified connections were good at the starter.

Checked for grounding issues by verifying voltage at the jump locations, chassis and engine while remaining clamped at the positive jump location. (all good)

Hooked up jumpers from the Jeep just to take "battery weirdness" out of the equation.

Disconnected Negative jump location wire and am leaving it disconnected until tomorrow.

What am I missing?

Bucky
Bucky83 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 07:40 PM
I hit shit with sticks!


 
Daytrepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 37,003
Feedback: 21 / 100%
                     
Garage
Silly question, was the used starter verified good before installation? Or if I am reading right; you installed it, it worked for a while, and now quit?

I would test for power at the small terminal on the starter, with a test light; and key in "start" position.

If there is power there, and your battery cables are good; bad starter; especially if a used one in unknown condition was installed.
Daytrepper is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Bucky83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 54
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytrepper View Post
Silly question, was the used starter verified good before installation? Or if I am reading right; you installed it, it worked for a while, and now quit?

I would test for power at the small terminal on the starter, with a test light; and key in "start" position.

If there is power there, and your battery cables are good; bad starter; especially if a used one in unknown condition was installed.

Thanks for the reply!
Yes sir, the starter was fine since Dec. 17, 2017 when I installed it. It was documented to have come off of a LHS with 66K miles so that is why I took the chance.

All was well until it did not work for the first time on Christmas Eve and has not since.
Bucky83 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 08:31 PM
I hit shit with sticks!


 
Daytrepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 37,003
Feedback: 21 / 100%
                     
Garage
Being a used starter I would not trust it no matter how many miles they claimed to have on it.

I would test the starter itself first like I mentioned. It is unusual to have any other issues with these cars in the starting system. If it is an original starter off of an LHS it is at least 16 years old, so that kind of throws the low mileage out the window.
Daytrepper is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-26-2017, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Bucky83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 54
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
I know what you are saying about the age etc., but I based my decision on the fact that the starter in question was in pristine (not wire brushed and painted) exterior condition, almost as if it barely saw wet roads let alone salty roads. I usually go for rebuilt or new when it comes to starters/alternators and the like but this time I took a gamble.

Sometimes the anacronym NEW even bites me.
Never
Ever
Worked
��

Thanks again for your input.
Bucky83 is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-27-2017, 12:00 AM
I hit shit with sticks!


 
Daytrepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 37,003
Feedback: 21 / 100%
                     
Garage
Risk you take when going used. Doesnt matter how good it looks on the outside. Still 16 plus years of wear on the brushes, solenoid, and other internal components.

Do the power test at the solenoid on the small wire and let us know the results. I'll bet your used starter is bad.

You have to be really careful of aftermarket parts these days. Yeah, i agree, new is often crap. Best to go with OEM Mopar whenever possible. I havent shopped at an auto parts store in a couple years now; I've had too much trouble with the junk they are selling now. Dealer or bust; or Rock Auto; at least you can choose a brand you trust there. Totally worth the extra money.


1998 Dodge Intrepid
Ram Logistics Director; Danbo Truck & Diesel, Inc.
Chairman; Let Your 2.7 Live Foundation
President, Danbo Drumming Ventures, GmbH;
Daytrepper is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-27-2017, 02:03 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 16,056
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Could very well be the starter, but a test would be: Do you have good voltage between the power cable at the starter stud and starter case when the key is in the Start position?

When you described some of the supply/ground voltage checks you did, I couldn’t tell for sure if you measured those voltages with the starter circuit energized (i.e., the power/ground circuit fully loaded). IOW, for example, did you get full system voltage downstream of ( < very important word there) the jump posts with starter circuit energized ( < also important word)?

Again - I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Dan is right about the starter being bad. But a check like I suggested should answer the question of if the problem is in the starter itself or “somewhere else”? You may have in effect already done the test I describe, but, again, I’m having trouble determining from your post if you did it “proper”, i.e., looked for voltage drops in power supply and ground with starter load applied (circuit energized). My apologies if you stated that, but if so, I’m not seeing it.

Common high resistance points if low voltage downstream of jump posts with load applied would be 1) at battery post connections (loose and/or corroded), and at jump post (either pos. or neg.) connections (usually loose, with possible resulting heat/arc damage).

I know you said you jumped the Jeep battery into it, but not clear where the clamp points were (for example, if upstream of the jump posts on the car, you have not ruled out a weak/high resistance jump post connection).


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-27-2017, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Bucky83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 54
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Thanks for chiming in PEVA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peva View Post
Could very well be the starter, but a test would be: Do you have good voltage between the power cable at the starter stud and starter case when the key is in the Start position?Did not test, but will do so

When you described some of the supply/ground voltage checks you did, I couldn’t tell for sure if you measured those voltages with the starter circuit energized (i.e., the power/ground circuit fully loaded). IOW, for example, did you get full system voltage downstream of ( < very important word there) the jump posts with starter circuit energized ( < also important word)?At the jump posts, circuit not energized.

Again - I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Dan is right about the starter being bad. But a check like I suggested should answer the question of if the problem is in the starter itself or “somewhere else”? You may have in effect already done the test I describe, but, again, I’m having trouble determining from your post if you did it “proper”, i.e., looked for voltage drops in power supply and ground with starter load applied (circuit energized). My apologies if you stated that, but if so, I’m not seeing it.No problem, I did not specify. None of the tests were performed with starter load applied.

Common high resistance points if low voltage downstream of jump posts with load applied would be 1) at battery post connections (loose and/or corroded), and at jump post (either pos. or neg.) connections (usually loose, with possible resulting heat/arc damage).Would the best "downstream" point be at the power block and fender ground on the driver's side?

I know you said you jumped the Jeep battery into it, but not clear where the clamp points were (for example, if upstream of the jump posts on the car, you have not ruled out a weak/high resistance jump post connection).
Jumped in at the jump posts. these connections are solid and clean.
Bucky83 is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-27-2017, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Bucky83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 54
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
I meant to add that I had no time to do anything today but re-connect the ground terminal to the jump post. There was no change in the no crank situation. Aka. the last KNOWN item in the starter circuit that has power is the relay in the power block on the driver's side. (relay clicks and no solenoid click at the starter)
Bucky83 is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 12-27-2017, 09:00 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 16,056
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
“Would the best ‘downstream’ point be at the power block and fender ground on the driver's side?”

If, by “power block”, you mean the PDC, then no - that would not be the best place. The pos. jump post is the junction of one cable from the battery, one cable to the starter, and a third cable to everything else (thru the PDC). To see if your problem is at the pos. jump post, you’d need to check voltage at either end of the starter power cable with starter energized. However if the solenoid isn’t triggering, no starter load - and you’d have to determine why the solenoid is not energizing - bad ground? bad relay? other?


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome