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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey all.
My son has a 1995 Intrepid. He went out and started it last night after his visit. Started and ran fine. Went back out a few minutes later and it had quit and would not start. I checked it this morning and found for a begining next to no fuel pressure(ink pin in the schrader valve). So we put a new filter in which upped the pressure but still no start. Plugs were cleaned and reinstalled, checked out with strong spark. The only thing we noticed was with the hose off the air filter box you can hear a "fuunt,fuunt,fuunt" while cranking over the motor. I'm guessing timing chain, any help would be appreciated. Oh yeah also did the unhook the battery to reset the computer.

Sorry it is the 3.3L engine.
 

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The first thing you have to do is check the fuel pressure with a gauge you should have around 40-45 psi or you not going to run.
If your pressure is low you either have a failing pump, or your pressure regulator is failing.
You didn't say what motor. If it is a 3.3 they are not known to have timing chain problems and run a long time. If a 3.5 timing belt could be bad but I would start with fuel pressure first.
The sound you hear with the filter off is probably normal, your just hearing the intake strokes most likely or maybe a leaky valve.
 

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So, is she sparking when you turn her over? If not check the ASD Relay, or the Crank Sensor. Maybe one of those have gone bad. Any of those if bad, will turn off the fuel pump after a few seconds.
 

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Could be, usually if a cam or crank sensor is bad the ASD relay will drop out after a few seconds. You could check to see if the relay is staying in while cranking. If it is then they should be good.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well bought fuel pressure tester. 49 psi KOEO, 60psi cranking. So cam sensor or crank sensor? What is the test procedure?
 

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Take a plug out to make sure you hear the pressure poping out the hole when you crank it over. If not, the belt is broke. Of course, it would also spin over with more of a whine since the only thing spinning is the crank (when the belt is broken).
 

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If the cam sensor or crank sensor is bad, it will trip the ASD relay. It may or may not also set a code in the computer. [heres how to check the codes]

When the ASD relay trips, it should shut down spark, and the fuel injectors. You will still have fuel pressure, because the pump is still allowed to prime the system. If the sensors are failing, it may take a second or two for the computer to realize it, and you may get spark for the first few seconds of cranking.


It's probably a sensor, in my opinion....
 

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Big3 said:
Take a plug out to make sure you hear the pressure poping out the hole when you crank it over. If not, the belt is broke. Of course, it would also spin over with more of a whine since the only thing spinning is the crank (when the belt is broken).

The 3.3L has a Chain, not a Belt. It's kinda unlikely (but not impossible)the chain broke unless it's got over 200K miles on it..

The 3.5L has a belt, and i can almost guarantee that the 3.5L's belt will fail at 100K +/- 20K...
 

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Well the fuel pressure look to be ok. You gauge might be off a little. On the 94 3.3 the pressure no vac is 55psi and with vac. 46psi.

As LHSDriver01 says, if a sensor is failing the asd will drop out after 3-5 seconds and you should loose spark at the plugs then. Otherwise I have pulled the relay, put some very small wires into the socket and stuck the relay back in to read voltages. I don't know if you can get to the back of the power panel or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Ummm the pressure reading was with vac hose installed. I have not tried to see if the spark fails after a few seconds but I will now. Uhh where is the ASD located? I did check the fuses(?) in the box in the engine compartment all are good.
 

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ASD Relay is located in the box in the engine compartment. Check your lid pic for location in the box.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Okay pulled first plug drivers side. Had my son crank for around 15 seconds. Lots of spark. You would think with all that cranking the plugs would be soaking wet. Checked them this morning did not seem all that wet but burned them off anyway. Is there a relay just for the injectors or something that would keep them from firing? I suppose I could try to squirt a little gas in each plug hole but I'd hate to. It just seems like they're not getting fuel.
 

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Don't think there is a relay for the injectors other than the ASD relay. The injectors are fired by the pcm which grounds the signal wire to each injector in time. The other side of the injectors should be at +12. Not sure if that power comes thru the ASD or not.
I had a problem with my injectors due to the wire harness being damaged by a transmission shop not putting the heater pipe back in place behind the engine. You can pull up my posts and I have two different problem areas to check with the wiring.
What I did when I was trouble shooting I used some small phone wire and inserted it into the injector plugs from the back where the wires enter the connector.
I then used a O scope to watch the pulses and a meter to check the +12.
You can get a test light called a noid light at the part stores for about $10 that you can check for signals to the injectors.
BTY someone mentioned timing belt. The 3.3's have a timing chain and their pretty reliable.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
The noid light I will try. I'll see if there is any damage to the wires. Otherwise it may be off to the shop.

I give many thanks to all your help. May not lick this problem but it is nice to find helpfull people.
Duane
 

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Maybe this will help you:

Diagnosis and Testing
Chrysler Concorde/Intrepid/LHS/New Yorker/Vision 1993-1997

FAILURE-TO-START TEST

See Figure 1

This no-start test checks the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. Refer to the ignition coil tests before commencing with this test, much time may be saved if the problem lies within the coil.

The PCM supplies 8.0 volts to the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor through one circuit. If the 8.0 volt supply circuit shorts to ground, neither sensor will produce a signal (output voltage to the PCM).

When the ignition key is turned and left in the ON position, the PCM automatically energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. However, the PCM de-energizes the relay within one second because it has not received a crankshaft position sensor signal indicating engine rotation.

During cranking, the ASD relay will not energize until the PCM receives a crankshaft signal. Secondly, the ASD relay remains energized only if the PCM senses a camshaft position sensor signal immediately after detecting the crankshaft position sensor signal.

Check battery voltage with a voltmeter. Make sure to always attach the positive voltmeter wire to the positive (+) terminal of the component being checked. Do the same with the negative - wire also. Voltage for the battery should be approximately 12.66 volts or higher to perform the failure-to-start test.

Unplug the harness connector from the coil pack.

Connect a test light (or voltmeter) to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground. The wire for the B+ terminal is dark green with a orange tracer.


Fig. 1: Attach the 12 volt test light to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground



Turn the ignition key to the ON position. The test light should flash on and then off. DO NOT turn the key to the OFF position, leave it in the ON position.

If the test light flashes momentarily, the PCM grounded the ASD relay. Proceed to Step 5.

If the test light did not flash, the ASD relay did not energize. The cause is either the relay itself or one of the relay circuits. Test the circuits for a ground or open circuit, Refer to Chassis Electrical for further electrical information on circuits. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the relay with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.

Crank the engine. If the key was placed in the OFF position after Step 4, turn the ignition to the ON position before cranking the engine. Wait for the test light to flash once, then crank the engine.

If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a camshaft position sensor signal. Test the camshaft position sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit, Refer to Chassis Electrical for further electrical information on circuits. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the camshaft position sensor with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.

If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the camshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine. If the test light momentarily flashes, the camshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced with a new one. If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8.0 volt supply circuit, or the crankshaft position sensor 5 volt output or ground circuits. Have the crankshaft position sensor checked, after checking the sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit, by a reputable automotive service shop familiar with Chrysler vehicles.

Coil Test
See Figures 2, 3 and 4


Fig. 2: The ignition coil connection terminal descriptions




Fig. 3: Check the primary resistance at the electrical connection and the secondary resistance across the coil towers




Fig. 4: Ignition coil terminal identification



Coil one fires cylinders 1 and 4, coil two fires cylinders 2 and 5, coil three fires cylinders 3 and 6 for the 3.3L and 3.5L engines. Each coil tower is labeled with the number of the corresponding cylinder.

Unplug the ignition cables from the coil terminals and the spark plugs. Make certain to label them before removal. Measure the resistance of the cables. Resistance must be between 3,000-12,000 ohms per ft. (30.5 cm) of cable. Replace any cable not within tolerance.

Unplug the electrical wiring harness connector from the coil pack.

Measure the primary resistance of each coil. At the coil, connect an ohmmeter between the B+ pin and the pin corresponding to the cylinders in question. Resistance on the primary side of each coil should be 0.45-0.65 ohms at 21-27°C (70-80°F). A coil not allowed to cool down, could result in inaccurate measurement results. Replace the coil with a new one if the resistance is not within tolerance.

Remove the ignition cables from the secondary towers of the coil. Measure the secondary resistance of the coil between the towers of each individual coil. Resistance for these engines depends on which manufacturer made the coil being tested. If the coil was manufactured by Diamond, the resistance should be 7000-15,800 ohms; if the coil was made by Toyodenso, the resistance should be 7000-15,800 ohms. If the coils' resistance are not within specifications, the coil must be replaced.
 
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