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Discussion Starter #21 (Edited)
Good!



I do suggest that you make the measurement as stated in the FSM just to be sure.


Well here we are. Got everything put back together, the engine turns over but won't start. Pulled the cam sensor and she starts. I swear the timing was perfect, all the links were on the correct teeth. Double, triple checked and then I checked again.

I picked up a new sensor just in case and it didn't make a difference. Voltage has been checked on the sensor plug and its correct.

Any ideas? I'm really not looking forward to doing it all over again... Begging for any sort of news that doesn't lean toward taking it apart again

It may be worth noting that I'm getting a P0340 and P0320. Cam and crank sensors...

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Go back and read my post no. 12. I don't believe you responded to that. At this point, I suspect you put in the sprocket with the wrong tone wheel on it, in which case the computer is not liking the cam sensor signal pattern it's seeing.

If that's the case, you either have to see if you can swap the tone wheel between your old and new sprockets (don't know how easy or possible that is), or you've got to buy just the sprocket (the later fine-pitch sprocket, but with older-style tone wheel - I don't know if they sell that without the rest of the chain kit).
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Go back and read my post no. 12. I don't believe you responded to that. At this point, I suspect you put in the sprocket with the wrong tone wheel on it, in which case the computer is not liking the cam sensor signal pattern it's seeing.

If that's the case, you either have to see if you can swap the tone wheel between your old and new sprockets (don't know how easy or possible that is), or you've got to buy just the sprocket (the later fine-pitch sprocket, but with older-style tone wheel - I don't know if they sell that without the rest of the chain kit).


I'm thinking the tone wheel you're talking about is the outer ring on the sprocket with all the holes in it. That being what the sensor reads. If so, it appears to be riveted to the sprocket itself and you're correct, I would have to replace the whole sprocket again. Not as serious as doing the job all over again but still ticks me off.

You're saying the tone wheel is for the post LH platform. Can I get a new sensor for that platform and move on with my life? as it's obviously timed or she would've had problems running without the sensor.

We asked around and the sensor was the same from something like 98-2004. Maybe the one for the next year range?


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Discussion Starter #24
I'm guessing I was showing my ignorance there. I'm thinking a different sensor wouldn't change anything because it just sends the signals to the computer. I'm cussing myself right now.

If that's my only option, I'll call the dealer and see if they have the new sprocket with old tone wheel. Maybe they'll make an exception and pull it out of a kit since the guy assured me that this was the one I needed.


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There were two PCMs used on our cars: SBEC (single board engine controller) - used thru 2001, and NGC (next generation controller) - used starting with 2002.

The hole (tone) pattern is different on the cam tone wheel and the flywheel (AKA flex wheel) between the SBEC and the NGC systems.

The fine-pitch chain system was not used on our cars. It was used in the later LX platform. Chrysler came out with chain kits to combine the SBEC tone wheel with the fine-pitch cam sprocket, which allowed pre-'02 (SBEC) LH owners to upgrade to the new chain design. I don't know if there were other platform 2.7s that actually came from the factory with the odd-duck SBEC/fine-pitch chain combination, or if the kit was strictly to accommodate the earlier year LH for converting to fine-pitch chain. Whichever the case, the particular Chrysler parts guy I dealt with when I did my chain/waterpump/etc. replacement knew of the permutations and of the kit I needed to go to the fine-pitch chain.

If there was a particular platform that came from the factory with the odd-duck transitional version of the timing kit, perhaps they did, and maybe still do, sell just the SBEC/fine-pitch cam sprocket by itself. But if the odd-duck kit was created just as a convenience to '98-thru-'01 2.7 LH owners, there is less of a chance that they ever did or still sell that sprocket. Hopefully it's documented in the Chrysler parts system in a way that is easily discoverable and you can get that information from a knowledgeable and patient parts guy.

Other than that, without part numbers, discovering by search words (like on eBay) may be difficult. You do have "SBEC" as part of the search for the right tone pattern, but I don't know that there are words for the pitch part of the equation. You can go by the number of teeth if the pictures used are accurate - doubtful the mention tooth count in the descriptions.

Easy solution would be if you discover that there is the odd-duck sprocket separately available (once you have the part number, eBay - Chrysler dealer seller if actual availability thru local dealer is difficult). But again, if the information is difficult to obtain, it may be worth considering swapping tone rings between your sprockets. If the rivet hole patterns are the same, it might be the best way to go. Either use strong rivets or bolts (if space for bolt head and nut) that allow close to zero play in the holes for alignment accuracy. Use thread locker if you use bolts and nuts.
 

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That sucks! So close and all the planning and work that went into this to end up with the wrong Tone Ring on there. Hope you get it straightened out.

Was it a Dealer that provided the Timing Chain Kit?
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
There were two PCMs used on our cars: SBEC (single board engine controller) - used thru 2001, and NGC (next generation controller) - used starting with 2002.

The hole (tone) pattern is different on the cam tone wheel and the flywheel (AKA flex wheel) between the SBEC and the NGC systems.

Easy solution would be if you discover that there is the odd-duck sprocket separately available (once you have the part number, eBay - Chrysler dealer seller if actual availability thru local dealer is difficult). But again, if the information is difficult to obtain, it may be worth considering swapping tone rings between your sprockets. If the rivet hole patterns are the same, it might be the best way to go. Either use strong rivets or bolts (if space for bolt head and nut) that allow close to zero play in the holes for alignment accuracy. Use thread locker if you use bolts and nuts.
I definitely got the NGC set when I should've gotten the SBEC set. This may be my fault because I didn't know the proper terms at the time of order so he started asking how many plugs go into it. Stupid mistake... I gave him the Year, Make, Model, Vin, everything so you would think they would've figured it out but whatever.

Question: Does the sprocket that came in your kit have 64 or 42 teeth?

I didn't actually count them but it is definitely the one to the left, I compared all the sprockets to my original and it has many more teeth, the chain lined up in all places without any slack.

That sucks! So close and all the planning and work that went into this to end up with the wrong Tone Ring on there. Hope you get it straightened out.

Was it a Dealer that provided the Timing Chain Kit?
I know! Thanks! It was a dealer in Texas that provided the kit. Tensioner and WP were sold separately from the same dealer

I'm going to call them on my lunchbreak and see if they'll send me the correct sprocket/tone-wheel and I can ship the one they gave me back. If this is the only difference between the two kits, they should be able to throw mine back in the kit they pull the correct one out of and effectively convert an SBEC kit to an NGC kit... Maybe they'll even make a few bucks out of it :p

If they can't/won't do that, I'll be switching the tone wheels... Assuming the rivet patterns match :( -- Thankfully I didn't throw out my old parts
 

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I believe the proper kit would have been 68036788AB (vs. the 68036787AB kit you got). I believe that would have been SBEC with fine-pitch sprocket - there's a chance it will have the coarser/fewer-teeth sprocket.

It's a jungle out there.

I have a feeling you'll be swapping the tone wheels. Assuming they have the other kit, unless they are just willing to admit their mistake and take a loss, since 1) their kit will have been opened, and 2) the sprocket you send back will have been installed/marked up. Imagine you're their next customer and they hand you that kit - would you pay anywhere near full price? Or if you catch them in a generous mood, they may just send you the whole kit and tell you to have a nice day. :)

I'd be surprised if the rivet holes don't totally match up. If so, I'd feel comfortable swapping the tone wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I just spoke with the guy that took my order over the phone. I'm getting a few pictures to him of my original tone wheel and he said they're going to make it right.

The one I installed shouldn't look too rough and he agreed it may be an option to throw it in the kit they pull the correct part from, effectively converting it to an NGC kit... They may have to sell it at a discount or like you said he may just send me the whole kit so he doesn't have to hear from me or deal with a future disappointment when someone realizes one of their new parts have already been installed.

Wish me luck. I might end up with a brand new sprocket that matches the original and I'll have to swap the tone wheels anyway... hopefully not. If so, I'll atleast have a couple to practice with before I remove the wheel from the sprocket I'll end up with lol.

Anyway, trying to stay positive. Hopefully I won't have to remove all the pulleys again and I can just pull the air-intake and driver side valve cover... I'll probably end up taking it completely apart. If, for no other reason than to make sure I didn't jump a tooth anywhere during the swap.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
She's alive!!!

Thanks to all for your help!!!

Tried to swap the sprocket without taking all the pulleys off. Car wouldn't start. Took everything off, inspected everything. Finally got to the crank sprocket, found that I jumped one tooth down there. Fixed that, put her back together, burped the engine and tore off down the road. She runs like a top, better than ever.


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Great news!

So you got the replacement (SBEC) sprocket from the dealer? If so, they are stand up!

Did the chain get off one tooth while you made the swap, or was it off one tooth before that?

You did determine that the tone wheel you original received in the kit was the wrong one (NGC)?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Great news!

So you got the replacement (SBEC) sprocket from the dealer? If so, they are stand up!

Did the chain get off one tooth while you made the swap, or was it off one tooth before that?

You did determine that the tone wheel you original received in the kit was the wrong one (NGC)?


Yup, dude overnighted it to himself from their mopar guy, compared it to the pic of my original and overnighted it to me. Dallas Dodge or mymoparparts.com I'll use them again if I need anything else.

It got off during the swap to the new one. I was lazy and had my father in law hold everything in place and pulled with all my might to get the new sprocket on. It had to jump when we pulled the other sprocket off and lined the links up on the new one. Stupid mistake. Should've done it right the first time.

So Sunday, I slowly took it completely apart while inspecting everything. Found that it was off a bit and fixed it. All is well.

Definitely a difference in tone wheels. Mine, SBEC, the tone pattern is 1 2 3 1 3 2. The NGC was 1 3 2 3 2 (or very similar)

Attached is the original sprocket and the tone wheel that matches the one I just installed. I'll get a pic of the NGC tone wheel tonight if you're interested

IMG_1099.jpg


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