DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've been lurking for a few hours, seems like the people here know a lot about the PCMs and security that Dodge/Chrysler use.

Problem:
2004 Sebring 2.7l Vin R; P0202 code (among several other misfire codes), engine has misfire:

Steps taken to date:
New plugs and wires, new coil on cylinder #2. Codes cleared - P0202 remains but other misc codes are gone. Tested resistance across the #2 injector coil - 0ohms (apparent direct short). Replaced the injectors with a complete set from another 2004 2.7 Vin R (they were a different color). Codes cleared. P0202 remains and misfire persists. Used a 194 light bulb, verified that all injectors except #2 were recieving the +12v pulse from the PCM. Stripped the wire harness, verifed that injector #2 had continuity to pcm and ground. Wire terminals at the pcm show no abnormal corrosion or bent pins. I've concluded that the transistor/driver for the #2 injector has failed.

Questions:
Can I connect the injector in parallel with the previous injector in the firing order without damaging the PCM further to get by for the moment?
Has anyone replaced the driver/transistor for the injector before?
If it's not repairable, I can get a used pcm, but the local dealer refuses to reprogram the VIN and mileage to it - they want to replace the PCM with new, we want to replace the car with something else soon and it's not worth shelling out $$$ for that service.
Is there a member near SW Michigan that could reprogram the mileage and VIN in a used PCM?

Thanks!
 

·
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!
Joined
·
15,449 Posts
Welcome to the forum! I hope someone can help you out. I'd just swap in the computer and call it a day, not worrying about the mileage and VIN unless you have security issues... Perhaps you can swap out multiple parts from another 2004 (like SKIMM module, PCM, and BCM) and skirt around the security problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
That sounds reasonable. But does the cluster also have to change to do that (or how many parts have to match VINs)? And can you link to some general information on the SKIMM module or security system in general?

Thanks!
 

·
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!
Joined
·
15,449 Posts
I'm not a second gen expert, just brainstorming based on what I've read... In the LH world, it is the BCM, PCM, and SKIMM that has to change IF you have a grey key... in the "cloud" cars I don't know how the SKIMM system works. If you have only a black key, I don't know why you'd need any of the programming done... but that's something for a cloud car expert to discuss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,757 Posts
The "Cloud" cars are nearly identical to the 2nd gen LH in the SKIM programming respects. You said the DTC was P0202? Did you mean P0302 for the misfire?

Also, if the P0202 is present, you could have a shorted noise suppressor. Just a longshot but, worth a look.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yes, P0202 - injector circuit malfunction. There is no +12v output from the PCM to energize the #2 injector. The misfire is a result of no fuel in the combustion chamber.

Where is the noise suppressor in the circuit? How could it effect a single injector?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,757 Posts
Only 2.7L engines have this suppressor AFAIK. They are next to the coils at the rear of the valve cover. 1 wire, (Green I think), and they look like a little black square. I don't know how they can affect a single injector. They were in the suggestion list as to things that cause an injector circuit P0202 DTC.
 

·
I hit **** with sticks!
Joined
·
37,338 Posts
Only 2.7L engines have this suppressor AFAIK. They are next to the coils at the rear of the valve cover. 1 wire, (Green I think), and they look like a little black square. I don't know how they can affect a single injector. They were in the suggestion list as to things that cause an injector circuit P0202 DTC.
Quick check, unplug the suppressor, see if the problem disappears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Hahaha, hey there! I left you a PM on the other site.
Hey! Thanks, been lurking several forums, and I figured you'd be familiar with this stuff.


The ignition key is black. So hopefully this means that there isn't SKIM to deal with. Just need to verify it's the same for the 'cloud' (?) car as the LH and then find one like that in the junkyard.

So the next part of the question, is there a specific transmission and pcm for the 2.7l or are there 'options' to make things more complicated?

Edit: Will try unplugging the supressor too.

Edit: Timeout - the buttons on the key are black....the key is grey...lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
So we unplugged the supressor, it did not fix the problem.

So I guess that leaves finding a BCM, SKIM, and PCM from a junkyard car? Where are the SKIM and BCM modules at? Any options that are car specific in the BCM that I would need to watch out for? Do I need the matching key and ignition switch from the junkyard or are the keys not coded like the GM keys?
 

·
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!
Joined
·
15,449 Posts
You'll need at least the key, the lock cylinder is optional... you can (in the LH world anyway) just tape the key to the bottom of the SKIMM box in the steering column. Yes, this disables the SKIMM from practically functioning because the car always thinks the key is present, this is up to you.

Dunno about the BCM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
Yes, P0202 - injector circuit malfunction. There is no +12v output from the PCM to energize the #2 injector. The misfire is a result of no fuel in the combustion chamber.

Where is the noise suppressor in the circuit? How could it effect a single injector?
i'm sure +12v is common and the pcm controls the grounds to fire the injectors. if you have no +12, then i'd think a bad wire.
i can look it up tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,757 Posts
i'm sure +12v is common and the pcm controls the grounds to fire the injectors. if you have no +12, then i'd think a bad wire.
i can look it up tomorrow.
I didn't think of that. Good call! It's got a possibility of early and late build in 2004 according to the FSM. This is the late build. I'm assuming these different builds are when the Stratus/Sebring switched over to NGC. How many plugs are on your PCM?



See if you have 12v + at the DG/LG wire at all six injectors. That is the common for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
When I checked with the test light the common was ground (which I thought was backwards, but :smileyvault-newhere)

PCM has three plugs I believe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,757 Posts
When I checked with the test light the common was ground (which I thought was backwards, but :smileyvault-newhere)

PCM has three plugs I believe.
If it has more than two then it will have four. Sounds like you have NGC, (Late build). I'll do some checking and see if I can get some extra detail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
how are you checking?
the asd relay would need to be jumpered as it provides the power to the cicuit if i'm not mistaken. didn't get a chance to look at diagrams today.
or you can check one plug at a time when running. there should be a steady power, and, depending on your test equipment, a pulse ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I used a 194 light bulb to check... probed the common with the other side of the bulb connected to ground, no light. probed the common to +12v, it lights.

I could go back and recheck with the DMM and test light to my hearts content if it's common +12v or common ground. But unless this asd relay grounds the injector common circuit when the key is off then I'm certain that the ground is common.

But, even if that is the case, then I still have to conclude that there isn't a problem with the common circuit because the test light lit up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,757 Posts


Found the other side of this diagram, finally.

So if you are getting a good 12 volts + at the one side of the injector wire, then that common 12 is apparently good along with the ASD and the fuses to it.

I would check the other side of the plug on injector #2 for continuity. That's the tan wire. See if it will light the bulb, (Unplugged from the PCM and injector). Also, check it for being shorted to the other wire.
 

·
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!
Joined
·
15,449 Posts
"other side of the plug on injector #2" - you mean check the harness for continuity at the injector to make sure the injector is getting 12v? Or do you mean to run the car with like a homeade noid light to see if the injector is getting signal?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top