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Woober Goobers!
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What's the cost on those new rear cam plate covers and gaskets Dan? Might want to stock up here for an upgrade! The Special is now 16 years old and the Ricer 18 years!

Haven't looked back there on either car and not sure I want to! The Special doesn't use any oil at all now that the oil pan drain plug is fixed!
 

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Woober Goobers!
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Hmmm...should I buy a RER MyGig NAV unit for the Durango along with the LockPick Adapter or or just stay aftermarket?

A RER NAV unit can be had as cheap as $350. Lockpick...$300...need both! WTF. RER is an OEM NAV unit. Requires a special bezel adapter and more.

Aftermarket NAV with CAN Bus adapter between $350-1000.

Alex....I'll take the the aftermarket!
 

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Boss Beeotch!
 

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I didn't know they made that rear timing cover o-ring/gasket change...
Yep, uses this gasket;


....and this new style plate;



Same as a bunch of the other engines. I have installed them a time or two on other peoples' cars. No leak issues anymore that I know of with them...
Oh shoot. I was visualizing the wrong thing. A few days ago, in the last couple of pages of the 2017 whore thread, you mentioned some water pump issues and leaking timing cover, and I was thinking maybe those two rubber ring coolant connections between the rear timing cover and the block that often corrode and leak coolant. I’m thinking now that that is not what you were saying. But then, when you mentioned the rear *cam* covers, my mind was still visualizing the rear *timing* cover (those two rubber ring coolant connections to the block). Now I see that that’s not what you were talking about.

I got the cardboard gaskets for the rear cam cover plates from the dealer once, but they looked so hokie that I never installed them. In spite of the problems people have had with the rubber o-rings for those, an o-ring just seems infinitely better than a flat cardboard gasket - I always figured it was a matter of using a better o-ring material - like Viton. But I could be totally wrong about that. The proof is in the pudding if you’ve gotten good results with the cardboard. I take it that you load them up pretty good with RTV.

One key I think is sealing the threads of one of the cover bolts with RTV - the one that goes into a thru-hole in the block. Bob/FireM always mentioned that as a common source of oil leaks back there - that you could have perfect o-ring (or cardboard gasket) sealing there, but if oil leaked thru that thru-hole via the bolt threads, you’d have a leak.
 

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I hit **** with sticks!
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Discussion Starter #45
We had a SOLID 8" of snow, blizzard conditions, and lost power. Woke up at 4:00am with the dog barking, I heard many transformers blowing - the winds were howling!. Woke up at 7:00am - no power.

I got the gas cans filled the night before but didn't get the generator / extension cords ready. So get the deck cleared of snow for a spot for the generator, tromp thru the snowy back yard to da Garage. The generator is buried under semi-valuable crap - then tromp outside to clear the area for the garage door opening. SLOWLY drag this sucker across 8" of snow to the deck where I need it. Then the bug screen for the window was frozen in so wires can run inside, cut the screen. Too Dam cold.

Finally got two electrical cords ran inside, and got set up on the needed life's items (coffee pot). House had many extension cords running around, got cable and Net going. Heater too...

Beers were packed in the snow.

It was reported at Oceana Naval air station (4 miles from here) - the recorded winds were 61 MPH.

School and work closed tomorrow - have the option of working from home again.

Got power back about 30 minutes ago.

Haven't touched the cars or the mega snow drifts on them.
Damn!! Good thing power wasnt out longer....

We got about 2 inches of snow here, 20 miles north of here, nothing. Wind has been howling since yesterday, it has calmed down some tonight.
 

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I hit **** with sticks!
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Discussion Starter #46
Where do you get those gaskets and plates? They're starting to leak on both my 1G and 2G?
If yours has the original plates, look up the part numbers for them. The number will supersede to the new plate and gasket. Same with the O-ring they used to use. I can dig up my reciept from the DD and get the part numbers if you want next time I am in the garage.

What's the cost on those new rear cam plate covers and gaskets Dan? Might want to stock up here for an upgrade! The Special is now 16 years old and the Ricer 18 years!

Haven't looked back there on either car and not sure I want to! The Special doesn't use any oil at all now that the oil pan drain plug is fixed!
It was $40 ish for both--plates were $15 ish each, and gaskets $4 ish.

Oh shoot. I was visualizing the wrong thing. A few days ago, in the last couple of pages of the 2017 whore thread, you mentioned some water pump issues and leaking timing cover, and I was thinking maybe those two rubber ring coolant connections between the rear timing cover and the block that often corrode and leak coolant. I’m thinking now that that is not what you were saying. But then, when you mentioned the rear *cam* covers, my mind was still visualizing the rear *timing* cover (those two rubber ring coolant connections to the block). Now I see that that’s not what you were talking about.

I got the cardboard gaskets for the rear cam cover plates from the dealer once, but they looked so hokie that I never installed them. In spite of the problems people have had with the rubber o-rings for those, an o-ring just seems infinitely better than a flat cardboard gasket - I always figured it was a matter of using a better o-ring material - like Viton. But I could be totally wrong about that. The proof is in the pudding if you’ve gotten good results with the cardboard. I take it that you load them up pretty good with RTV.

One key I think is sealing the threads of one of the cover bolts with RTV - the one that goes into a thru-hole in the block. Bob/FireM always mentioned that as a common source of oil leaks back there - that you could have perfect o-ring (or cardboard gasket) sealing there, but if oil leaked thru that thru-hole via the bolt threads, you’d have a leak.
Ive had good luck with them, no RTV needed; only place I put sealant is on the threads of the bolts--with thread sealant.

The old style with the o-ring would leak after a year or two; or at least start seeping. The oring is so small, and sits nearly flush in the groove on the plate; it barely contacts the back of the head to make a good seal, so as soon as it dries out or hardens up alittle bit from the heating/cooling of the engine, you have a leak.

Now the timing housing O-rings definitely get RTV; not sure why the FSM refers to it as the "rear" timing cover when it is actually on the front of the engine; lol....
 

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Haven't noticed any oil usage on the 300m. 1.5 years and 50,000 miles on it since those o-rings were swapped. The trep on the other hand goes through a quart every 1,500 miles. Not even going to look for the leak right now since it doesn't leave a noticeable drip in the snow. Don't know if the factory o-rings were plain nitrile rubber/Buna, or flourocarbon. Going to guess nitrile since it is a common complaint and has a max temp rating of 200-220* whereas flourocarbon is 400* and so it shouldn't harden near as quick.
 

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I think Bill was talking about the O-Rings behind the timing cover plate at the front of the engine Dan. The plate behind the timing belt and water pump etc.

But as always I could be wrong!
You’re exactly right. For some reason, I didn’t see your post until just now.

If yours has the original plates, look up the part numbers for them. The number will supersede to the new plate and gasket. Same with the O-ring they used to use. I can dig up my reciept from the DD and get the part numbers if you want next time I am in the garage.



It was $40 ish for both--plates were $15 ish each, and gaskets $4 ish.



Ive had good luck with them, no RTV needed; only place I put sealant is on the threads of the bolts--with thread sealant.

The old style with the o-ring would leak after a year or two; or at least start seeping. The oring is so small, and sits nearly flush in the groove on the plate; it barely contacts the back of the head to make a good seal, so as soon as it dries out or hardens up alittle bit from the heating/cooling of the engine, you have a leak.

Now the timing housing O-rings definitely get RTV; not sure why the FSM refers to it as the "rear" timing cover when it is actually on the front of the engine; lol....
The bolded is the key. The controlled-crush o-ring-in-groove design is the absolute best gasket design IMO - if done right. Your comment indicates that the groove is too deep for the cross section of the o-ring, or perhaps it is perfect to the Parker design guidelines (for *new* o-ring), but as you said, after a little shrinkage (plus some compression set), no dice. The overall design results are compromised by poor choice of o-ring material. It shows how one mistake in a design (in this case, o-ring material) may make all the other attention to detail for nought, all to save maybe 0.3¢ total vehicle cost on inferior o-ring material (same with the MTV o-ring).

That’s why I always go with Viton for replacements. Its material stability to chemical and thermal exposure and resistance to compression set can make a marginal design into an ideal one (or maybe they did mess up on the groove depth - probably wouldn’t hurt to shave the groove-side of the covers a few thousandths when replacing the o-rings). I never got around to replacing my rear cam cover o-rings - pre-emptively, as mine never leaked prior to my 3.2’s demise with timing belt breakage just shy of 200k miles.
 

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I hit **** with sticks!
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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
I didn't know they made that rear timing cover o-ring/gasket change.

I only have the far superior 2.7 now, so good to go for a long time. :)
.
You’re exactly right. For some reason, I didn’t see your post until just now.
Lol. FSM calls it "rear" timing cover, when it is in fact on the front of the engine....I suppose you could call it the "rear" timing cover because it is at the rear side of the timing belt. I call it the timing housing. When I hear "rear" timing cover, I think rear of the engine---because most diesels now have their timing set on the back of the engine and there is a rear timing cover. I was referring to the cam cap orings in that post. the "rear" timing cover orings have not been updated, although they need to be; since its not unusual for them to leak, and the housing to develop pits around them.
 

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I hit **** with sticks!
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Discussion Starter #51 (Edited)
That’s why I always go with Viton for replacements. Its material stability to chemical and thermal exposure and resistance to compression set can make a marginal design into an ideal one (or maybe they did mess up on the groove depth - probably wouldn’t hurt to shave the groove-side of the covers a few thousandths when replacing the o-rings). I never got around to replacing my rear cam cover o-rings - pre-emptively, as mine never leaked prior to my 3.2’s demise with timing belt breakage just shy of 200k miles.
I would suggest upgrading to the new covers. Much better sealing surface and you have room for RTV if you want that added protection.
 

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Worked from home again today. Drank beer after 1:00 pm for the hell of it. Took the dog to the park - he was wild. Nice way to get paid.
 

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Woober Goobers!
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Work is Overrated!
 

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Got any pictures of the Snow carnage Chris?
 

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Woober Goobers!
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Media is calling it a "Bomb Cyclone"! How about a Winter Storm likes it's always been called? Sheesh!
 

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Got any pictures of the Snow carnage Chris?
I got a few - mostly of the back deck and the 9" of snow on the table.

I highly doubt the kids will have school on Monday - the roads are a mess. 8 lane road (Va. Beach Blvd) really isn't plowed and maybe 2.5 lanes per each side might be drivable - driving over ice.

:mehpop:
 

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Woober Goobers!
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Wassup you Yabbos! heh
 

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That bees some snow!
 
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