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Discussion Starter #1
Need some help here. Cruise Control just stopped working today. The light comes on at startup will not work while driving. I have codes 47, 64 & 21. According to Allpar 47 (Battery or Alternator output too low) New Battery New Alternator. 64 (Catalytic Converter Efficiency Failure). 21 (Oxygen Sensor Signal doesn't change).

Are these codes true for a 95 Concorde and will these codes disable the cruise control? Otherwise car drives normally.
 

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I’d say the first step is to measure the system voltage. If the system voltage is low, all bets are off for anything on the vehicle that uses electricity (pretty much everything).

Measure the system voltage at the battery. With the engine at approx. 2000 rpm, the system should be between 13.5 and 14.5 volts - towards the lower end of that range in warmer weather, towards the higher end in colder temperatures, but never outside that range at 2000rpm or higher.

If voltage not in that range, then you need to find out why and fix the cause. If voltage is within that range, you need to find out why all the other symptoms.

We can give advice on what to do next from the voltage measurement you get. There’s a chance that the system voltage is causing all the problems, and if you fix the cause of that, everything will work right.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I’d say the first step is to measure the system voltage. If the system voltage is low, all bets are off for anything on the vehicle that uses electricity (pretty much everything).

Measure the system voltage at the battery. With the engine at approx. 2000 rpm, the system should be between 13.5 and 14.5 volts - towards the lower end of that range in warmer weather, towards the higher end in colder temperatures, but never outside that range at 2000rpm or higher.

If voltage not in that range, then you need to find out why and fix the cause. If voltage is within that range, you need to find out why all the other symptoms.

We can give advice on what to do next from the voltage measurement you get. There’s a chance that the system voltage is causing all the problems, and if you fix the cause of that, everything will work right.
If it is a low voltage problem what would be the likely culprit on these cars? New Alternator and even tried a different battery. No change.
 

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PCM controls the Alternator output. Need to do those voltage checks first.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Left the battery unplugged overnight. Got home from work an hour ago and only 21 & 34 codes now. I did fail to mention it has a bad clockspring. I have new one. O2 code aside, could this be my culprit? Haven't checked voltage yet. My bed is calling me right now.?
 

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Left the battery unplugged overnight. Got home from work an hour ago and only 21 & 34 codes now. I did fail to mention it has a bad clockspring. I have new one. O2 code aside, could this be my culprit? Haven't checked voltage yet. My bed is calling me right now.?
The only codes/problems you’ve mentioned that a bad clockspring would cause is cruise control not working.

I’d say the first step is to measure the system voltage...
...Need to do those voltage checks first.
Did we mention checking the voltage? :Chair:
 

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CODE 21
DRB displays O2S STAYS AT CENTER, LEFT O2S STAYS AT CENTER,
or RIGHT O2S STAYS AT CENTER. Condition is: no rich or lean signal
detected from oxygen sensor input.
CODE 21
DRB displays O2S SHORTED TO VOLTAGE, LEFT O2S SHORTED TO
VOLTAGE, or RIGHT O2S SHORTED TO VOLTAGE. Condition is: oxygen sensor
input voltage maintained at more than normal operating range.

CODE 34
DRB displays SPEED CONTROL SOLENOID CIRCUITS. Condition is:
open or shorted condition detected in Speed Control (S/C) vacuum or
vent solenoid circuits.
CODE 34
DRB displays SPEED CONTROL SWITCH ALWAYS LOW. Condition is:
speed control switch input less than minimum acceptable voltage.
CODE 34
DRB displays SPEED CONTROL SWITCH ALWAYS HIGH. Condition is:
speed control switch input more than maximum acceptable voltage.
 

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And how do you know you have a bad clock spring? What makes you say that?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ronbo, turn signal stalk doesn't cancel when turning the wheel. Also horn quit working. Before I bought a new clockspring I pulled the wheel off. Turned the center until I felt tension and then backed it off 2 turns. Horn works fine, but you have to manually cancel the stalk with every turn. It is worth noting, lately while idling down the road the car will maintain speed instead of slowing down. When I place it in park it revs up to 1,100 rpms and slowly backs off. Put it in drive or reverse and it wants to take off like a rocket.
 

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I don't have a clue about what you just said on the clock spring!

Did you install a new one?

At one point you say the horn quit working and a few sentences later you indicate that the horn works fine??? So the horn is working now.

Turn signal not canceling should be a mechanical function separate from the clock spring. There should be a cam attached to the steering column shaft that hits a matching area under the stalk to physically move it and cancel it. I'd say that issue is related to the Multi Function switch itself. You'd have to pull the covers off the area around the turn signal switch and look to see what's broken/worn.

I'm not even going to touch your idle issue! Could be many things. Download the service manual that should be at the top of the forum where you're posting this and read through it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Ronbo, new clockspring not installed yet. Followed instructions on the old clockspring. There's a cam on the back that's supposed to cancel the stalk, for whatever reason doesn't. When I left Wal Mart today the horn beeped for a second while turning the wheel. As for the voltage: 12.7v while idle. Bad battery cell. Replaced battery and is now at 14.1v. No change with cruise, still reads 21 and 34 codes. No more time today gotta go to work.
 

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I agree with Ron that turn signals not canceling almost certainly is a bad multifunction switch. Best prices on those is eBay - get from seller aspen_auto_parts, model SM143.

(There’s a small spring-loaded tab on the multifunction switch that the steering column cam has to diddle to cancel the turn signal. The tiny plastic pieces and tiny springs on that tab mechanism quit centering the tab after the switch’s plastic parts wear a little bit and start causing the tab to bind. Once the tab starts binding slightly, it quits returning to center (it’s centering springs are very tiny and weak), the steering column cam misses hitting the tab because it’s not exactly centered, so no cancellation.)

Control signals for cruise go thru the clock spring, but I’m not sure how that would result in cruise control servo code.

Did you say the horn blew once while you were turning the steering wheel? Never heard of bad clockspring causing horn to blow - only causing it to keep from blowing. Not convinced there’s a clockspring problem, but could be. May or may not be other problems in horn circuit.

Idle issue could be leaking gasket somewhere on intake or other vacuum leak, or carboned-up idle air control actuator and port, or binding throttle (cable, dirty throttle body bore/butterfly).
 

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<<<<<<.....doesn't know Jacques Sheet!
 

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Could be the clock spring for cruise control. Read the Code definitions...there are three of them. Looks like with Code 34 read with the CEL flashes has 3 possibilities. Notice the definitions indicate the specific DRB code reading. Two ore the CC switch low or high voltage detected. The 3rd is the Servo.
 

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<<<<<<.....doesn't know Jacques Sheet!
Ouchie!

Could be the clock spring for cruise control. Read the Code definitions...there are three of them. Looks like with Code 34 read with the CEL flashes has 3 possibilities. Notice the definitions indicate the specific DRB code reading. Two ore the CC switch low or high voltage detected. The 3rd is the Servo.
You are correct.

If the clock spring is causing the horn or the c.c. problem, it’s not the usual simple opening of the traces. Take a look at the diagram of the 1st gen. c.c. switch assembly and its clock spring traces below. If either of the clockspring traces opens (breaks), the switch reading circuit doesn’t see any change in its voltage - the circuit is still open just like with the trace not broken and all the switches in their normally-open condition.

For the c.c. switch output voltage to go higher than its normal voltage, something would have to be shorting the switch output wire to a higher voltage. That would have to be a very unusual short inside the clock spring or somewhere else in the wiring.

The spontaneous honking of the horn also could not be due to a clock spring wire opening (breaking). It would have to be due to a short either inside the clock spring or somewhere else in the wiring. Again - that would be a very unusual failure mode of the clock spring.

I will be interested in finding out what the cause or causes turn out to be. If replacing the clock spring fixes those problems, again, it will have to be more than the usual flex fatigue fracture of the clock spring traces. If that does turn out to be the case, I don’t expect anyone to take it apart to see what actually happened inside it that was more than a simple fracture. Like I said, a fracture of the traces could not cause those symptoms. (A simple fracture would cause the horn not to work, but it could not cause the horn to blow with no-one pressing the horn switch.

Anyway...

Here’s The diagram of the c.c. switch assy. and the clock spring traces:

 

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Discussion Starter #18
Here's my game plan tomorrow... 1st replace the clockspring and see if that solves the problem. 2nd If no change replace both input & output speed sensors. If that doesn't solve the problem then it's gotta be the servo.
At what point do you stop throwing money at a car and say screw it. Parts for these 1st gens are scarce and at times expensive. Will it ever be a classic collectable? I just wonder why this car can't be as reliable as my 97 Ram with nearly 220,000 odo all original powertrain?
 

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It won't be a classic in our lifetimes if ever. I keep throwing parts at mine as long as they're cheap and relatively easy to replace. It is still going but I always assume the end is near.
 
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