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Discussion Starter #21
those of you who used the re manufactured brake booster ... do they work alright or is it worth buying the new brake booster twice its price? please any help would be greatly appreciated thanks !
 

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I have a reman and it works great.
Would not be the booster anyway. If booster, and the system was solid then you would have a hard pedal not a soft pedal.
I will get back to you later tonite. I work nites and right now I have to go to work.
I will post back later in nite.
I can understand your frustarion but dont loose it right now.
Something dont make sense here.
We are here to help
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
I have a reman and it works great.
Would not be the booster anyway. If booster, and the system was solid then you would have a hard pedal not a soft pedal.
I will get back to you later tonite. I work nites and right now I have to go to work.
I will post back later in nite.
I can understand your frustarion but dont loose it right now.
Something dont make sense here.
We are here to help
thanks a lot of man ... the problem is when you dont know whats causing the problem then the frustration kicks in .... the pedal feels really spongy and you have to push it all the way to the floor for the car to stop, and I can still hear that hissing sound even though I did replace the booster from advance auto parts. Do we have to buy the new PIN that attached the booster to the pedal too? The mechanic that changed the master cylinder told me that the old MC was rusted from the back side and the new one is perfect. I took it to the dealer, and they said that there is no air in the system that means really that the remanufactured booster is bad? ...
p.s. Also my pedal comes back up slower than usual ..
 

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Khizer - you've got two problems, and I want to try to separate them for you... if you have some mechanical ability, some abiltity to lay on your back, and a place to do it, the repairs are not totally out of your reach as the shade tree mechanic...

First off, the brake booster. A failure of the brake booster will give you one of two (or both) symptoms. A bad brake booster will not help you apply the brakes (or not as well as it should), or will may keep the pedal from coming up as easily. Most of the diagnostics for a bad booster will be found by pedal feel, and by listening for hissing. Hissing can be just annoying, or can signal a booster failure. A brake booster can fail due to an internally leaking master cylinder (you might see a trail of brake fluid down the face of the booster under where the master cylinder attaches), or can also fail due to a failure in the fuel system. On a Ford Ranger, it has been proven that a bad fuel regulator will leak fuel up and out the vacuum line, and then into the booster, causing the rubber to break down in the booster. This will likely NOT be the case in the 2nd gen LH platform however.

Now, for the master cylinder - a failure of the master cylinder will cause the brakes to not apply, or to not retract, and will also give the same problems with the brake pedal. Although rare, it is possible to have gotten a bad master cylinder from the supplier. It sounds like maybe only one of the brake circuits are activating. I would go back to the place you got the master cylinder and ask about an exchange due to getting a dud. They should be willing to exchange it.

While you have it apart, it might be worth it to get a new booster - because you have to remove the master cylinder again if you do need to change the booster.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Khizer - you've got two problems, and I want to try to separate them for you... if you have some mechanical ability, some abiltity to lay on your back, and a place to do it, the repairs are not totally out of your reach as the shade tree mechanic...

First off, the brake booster. A failure of the brake booster will give you one of two (or both) symptoms. A bad brake booster will not help you apply the brakes (or not as well as it should), or will may keep the pedal from coming up as easily. Most of the diagnostics for a bad booster will be found by pedal feel, and by listening for hissing. Hissing can be just annoying, or can signal a booster failure. A brake booster can fail due to an internally leaking master cylinder (you might see a trail of brake fluid down the face of the booster under where the master cylinder attaches), or can also fail due to a failure in the fuel system. On a Ford Ranger, it has been proven that a bad fuel regulator will leak fuel up and out the vacuum line, and then into the booster, causing the rubber to break down in the booster. This will likely NOT be the case in the 2nd gen LH platform however.

Now, for the master cylinder - a failure of the master cylinder will cause the brakes to not apply, or to not retract, and will also give the same problems with the brake pedal. Although rare, it is possible to have gotten a bad master cylinder from the supplier. It sounds like maybe only one of the brake circuits are activating. I would go back to the place you got the master cylinder and ask about an exchange due to getting a dud. They should be willing to exchange it.

While you have it apart, it might be worth it to get a new booster - because you have to remove the master cylinder again if you do need to change the booster.
hey, first off thanks for the reply, really appreciate it.
I really dont know if i'm describing it the right way as i'm no mechanic and this is the first time this happened to my car. When I start the car, the pedal feels really loose, if I push it 1/3 nothing happens, I have to push it all the way down to the floor for the car to stops and the car eventually does stops just fine but the pedal goes all the way to the floor for that to happen. As I bought both the parts remanufactured from advance auto parts, both brake booster and master cylinder, there will be no problem in replacing them with another ones. But the fluid level does not go down, nor did I find any leaks anywhere. Right now the car is at the dealership and you guys describe it best by calling it the stealership. They told me that they'll perform the diagnostics for $107 and they told me that there is no air in the system and the problem is either in the brake booster or master cylinder. They told me before anything else your pedal goes 1/3 down when u press it slightly and nothing happens. I completely forgot to tell them to take out the air in the abs pump but I guess they already know this part. Now what they are quoting me for the job is 335 in labor only and they told me the new booster is 350 and master cylinder is around the same price so it will be close to a 1000 bucks. So, I'll definately get my car back from them in the morning but after changing both brake booster and master cylinder again, if the problems remains then i'm gonna be totally screwed :( ....
 

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It sounds like maybe something may not be connected properly - is the brake rod adjustable on your replacement booster? Is the booster completely bolted to the fire wall (maybe something fell between the booster and the firewall)...

Did you buy the two parts as a sub assembly, or were they boxed separately and you put them together? If they were already bolted together, there could be something 'off' from the factory.
 

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So, I'll definately get my car back from them in the morning but after changing both brake booster and master cylinder again, if the problems remains then i'm gonna be totally screwed :( ....
Trust me - you are NOT totally screwed till we stop helping you :banana:
 

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Discussion Starter #28
It sounds like maybe something may not be connected properly - is the brake rod adjustable on your replacement booster? Is the booster completely bolted to the fire wall (maybe something fell between the booster and the firewall)...

Did you buy the two parts as a sub assembly, or were they boxed separately and you put them together? If they were already bolted together, there could be something 'off' from the factory.
It might be the case as my mechanic did it for me. I bought the two parts seperatly as I initially thought it was the brake booster so I replaced that, didnt fix the problem so I replaced the master cylinder and bleed the brakes. Still, the same problem is there. Is the PIN that connects the booster to the pedal needs to be new cuz I used the old one. Will that be causing the pedal to drop down a little but regardless the brakes are just too darn soft !
 

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Yup, good tests to perform. The pin I'm not sure about - to me, it shouldn't matter if a pin is new or used... can you describe the pin better? Is it something that holds two parts in place, like a cotter pin, or is it something big, more like a push-rod size?

If it is pushrod size, I wonder if that is your problem... the rod may be too short for the new aftermarket parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Yup, good tests to perform. The pin I'm not sure about - to me, it shouldn't matter if a pin is new or used... can you describe the pin better? Is it something that holds two parts in place, like a cotter pin, or is it something big, more like a push-rod size?

If it is pushrod size, I wonder if that is your problem... the rod may be too short for the new aftermarket parts.
I really dont know the size of it. I'm getting all this from different places on the net. I'll check once the car comes back.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I have a quick question ... isnt the dealer supposed to pin point the problem when i'm giving them the $107 diagnostic fee? ... Even if that means getting a new brake booster installed to check. Isnt it up to me to go ahead with the repair or not? ... Atleast thats how the acura does or they give me back the diagnostics fee if they dont find any problem ...
 

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Have you checked the vacumn line to the brake booster? Perhaps there is an air leak in that line. However having said that a spongy pedal usually is caused by air in the brake line some place. Have you checked the lines themselves and where they fasten to the calipers?
Good luck
 

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So lets start from the begining.
Please provide the mileage and location to better understand the condition of the car parts.

1)
You had problems with the car which you are describing to us now.
Did these problems develop all of a sudden or over a period of time?
Was there something done to the car before these problems started?

2)
You had the Power booster changed to correct the problem and there was no change.

3)
You had the brake master changed (which leaked at back) to correct the problem and there was no change

4)You had the brakes bled but did not have the ABS pump bled after you had the master off.

5)
You took it to the dealership and they say there is no air in the system.

To me the original condition still exists
The original condition was that the car had stock OEM parts on it which worked for years and then something went wrong to create the sympoms you describe.

I think that means that the pushrod is good because it did it with the original bunch of parts.

I would find a wide deserted gravel road and, from 30 MPH, slam on the brakes and check to see if all the brakes are actuating.
If some brakes are working and others not then I would say there is air in the system.
Lets look at the system.
The brake pedal is connected to the booster via a solid rod.
The booster has a solid rod inside which pushes the master cylinder.
If the seals in the master do not bypass the fluid, the fluid acts as a solid rod and pushes the front and back pistions out to rub against the rotors to absorb energy.
Even if the rod out of the booster was short, after that travel was taken up then you should have "solid' brakes.
You do not have solid brakes.
The brake linkages wont bend so rule them out.
The master cylinder seals could be gone but I think I would look elsewhere.
The rubber flex lines can develop a crack where they can expand like a ballon and not allow the brake fluid pressure to reach operating pressure.
Very loose wheel bearings can have so much give of the hub that it takes most of the pedal stroke to get the pistion to the disk.
Also swollen seals in the system can compress taking most of the pedal stroke. Anybody add something to the brake system prior to all this problem?

Personally I think it acts, smells and looks like air.
I think that the old master cylinder develloped a leak in the back and allowed air into the system.
I think the reason it still dont work after the master was changed is because of air in the ABS pump.
I think the reason the pedal is slow returning is because the caliper seals, which force the pistions back to their original position, movement is being absorbed by the air.

Personally if it were my car I would take it to a shop with the proper brake bleeding scan equiptment and say to them.
"Bleed the system" "Thats it, just bleed the system the proper way for ABS"

I have heard it said that with ABS, normal bleeding process can damage something in the ABS unit.

These are just my opinions and I do not pretend to be an expert.
Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #36
First of all, thanks for the reply, this will really help me ... to answer your questions
1. I bought the car with 70,000 miles and now it has 160K miles. The problem started last year but I bought another car so intrepid has been sitting in the garage for a year. I really dont remember how the problem started.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yeh, I bled it the normal way
5. Exactly, and thats why i'm confused as I really thought there was air in the ABS pump thats causing the problem and that is why I took it to the dealership in the first place. Maybe they didnt check the ABS pump, they said they attached the DRB and it indicated no air in the system.

As I bought the car at 70,000 miles I dont know if the previous owner had OEM parts, the brake booster that I took off was made by BOSCH and the remanufactured one that I put on is made by CARDONE. I dont know about the master cylinder.

If I take the car to the gravel road, How can I find out if the brakes are working or not? ... I mean how would I pin point to the exact problem?

The old master cylinder I took off was rusted from the back. To bleed it according to the ABS, thats exactly why I took it to DODGE dealership. I'm gonna ask the guy again tomorrow to pump the air out of the ABS even if he gets mad. Diagnostics should mean that they should be able to pin point the exact problem with the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Have you checked the vacumn line to the brake booster? Perhaps there is an air leak in that line. However having said that a spongy pedal usually is caused by air in the brake line some place. Have you checked the lines themselves and where they fasten to the calipers?
Good luck
Yeh I took off the vacuum line, and it was working fine (sucking the air in) right? .... I didnt find any leak anywhere in the system
 

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Khizer
As quoted from cdmccul
" It sounds like maybe only one of the brake circuits are activating"

By slamming on the brakes on gravel it could eliminate some possibilities.
Make sure the trunk and cab area is empty of stuff that would fly around and hurt someone.
After several attempts at slamming on the brakes I think you will find........ Wait a minute. This car has ABS dont it.
OK
Take out the ABS fuse so the ABS dont interfere with test.
Take car to 20 MPH on gravel, deserted road and slam on brakes.
I think you will find that only one front and the opposite rear tire locks up.
Do it a few times to make sure. Each time get out and look at which tires locked up and which did not or just barely came on.
If the cops come and question you tell them I said it was OK :nervous: Maybe not.
If all 4 wheels lock up each time no problem then I am wrong and barking up a wrong tree.
The results will help us figure this out.
After doing that take a look at the lines for leakage.
I did that to my wifes Trep and found it hardly had any brakes. Only one circuit was working. Found leaky proportioning valve on rear. Leak was so small that appeared to be no loss of fluid but was enough for air to get in. Replaced valve, bled system and now it would lock em at 70 if I wanted. Just a bit of air will make the system not respond correctly.

Im betting you find only 2 diagonally opposite brakes are any good
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Just got an update on the car, it was indeed the bad brake booster that was causing most of the problems. Still though, the pedal does go a little down (not 1/3 like it used to) till the brakes take effect. The car does stop but not as instantly as perhaps the Acura I drive (maybe cuz of the 18" wheels I have ... the car came with 15") . I told my mechanic to try and take it to a gravel road to activate ABS and try and see if that is working fine. He is off next two days so on friday I will get further details on it. Thanks once again for all the help guys, I really appreciate it
 
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