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Discussion Starter #1
I've been mulling this over for a while now. Why can't we get a larger airbox? I've decided to get a JoeKD intake and probably do the Kenne Belle mod in the near future. Here's what I'm thinking.

A CAI is supposed to flow more, and cooler, air into the engine. Up until now, we've used a filter like a K&N to have better airflow. Logically, we can agree that the free-er flowing filter probably lets more fine particles go through. Is that harmful? I haven't decided.

Lets change the conversation. I want a larger airbox that uses a larger filter. Something off a larger engine, 300C, Camaro, Mustang, whatever. That way, we could buy stock filters with a larger surface area and still get higher airflow. Or if you want, buy a K&N for that airbox and get outrageous airflow. We could find the larger airbox at junkyads and buy the filters anywhere. A factory airbox from some other engine would be plastic and easily mounted. We would just need to find one with the proper dimensions.

Of course there would need to be some modding done to the inlet pipe and hole in the front fender that feeds the airbox, but that should be pretty easy.

I need to spend a day at the junkyard and get some ideas. What do you guys think? Any ideas?

-Dan
 

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here's my two cents, I have done track runs using various combos of my intakes from airbox to heatshield with cone and even open intake, no cone and came up with the exact same track times

my belief is that our motors get more then enough air through a 3" pipe and could probably use even smaller then that without choking

good idea but I dont think it's worth the hunting and pecking for a box that fits under our hoods without relocatiing the battery
 

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Discussion Starter #4
JoeKD, that's the sort of feedback I'm fishing for, thanks.

Warlord, I agree. I'm thinking about a larger airbox only because it would hold a larger filter. The larger filter having more surface area and therefore more airflow.

I've really been thinking about this since I bought a 99 ES for my wife a few weeks ago. It has the 3.2 and it spins up really well. Smooth, quiet, powerful, I love it. The 3.5 in my R/T is just a totally different animal. It feels more powerful but its also a little harsher, especially above 3500rpm. I've come to the conclusion it just needs more air.

Maybe its something else altogether. But I've looked at the two intakes (3.2 vs 3.5) and they look about the same. The 3.5 should need at least 10% more air. Logic tells me that if those two intakes are the same, then it could feed the 3.2 just fine and not be enough for the 3.5.

Of course we know all that and thats why we put on aftermarket intakes. I just keep thinking about high flow filters and wonder if they are letting in fine particles that really shouldn't get in the motor. I really have no experience yet. However a larger airbox and filter would solve both issues.

Just thinking out loud. thanks for any feedback.

-Dan
 

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01R/T_SC said:
JoeKD, that's the sort of feedback I'm fishing for, thanks.

Warlord, I agree. I'm thinking about a larger airbox only because it would hold a larger filter. The larger filter having more surface area and therefore more airflow.

I've really been thinking about this since I bought a 99 ES for my wife a few weeks ago. It has the 3.2 and it spins up really well. Smooth, quiet, powerful, I love it. The 3.5 in my R/T is just a totally different animal. It feels more powerful but its also a little harsher, especially above 3500rpm. I've come to the conclusion it just needs more air.

Maybe its something else altogether. But I've looked at the two intakes (3.2 vs 3.5) and they look about the same. The 3.5 should need at least 10% more air. Logic tells me that if those two intakes are the same, then it could feed the 3.2 just fine and not be enough for the 3.5.

Of course we know all that and thats why we put on aftermarket intakes. I just keep thinking about high flow filters and wonder if they are letting in fine particles that really shouldn't get in the motor. I really have no experience yet. However a larger airbox and filter would solve both issues.

Just thinking out loud. thanks for any feedback.

-Dan

Also thinking out loud, but another way to look at it is that the 3.2L is getting 10% more air than needed, instead of the 3.5L getting 10% less air than needed.
 

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01R/T SC if your looking for more airflow why not bore out your TB to 60MM. Since your going with JoeKD intake the J-Bend will be bored to allow better flow and If you open up the TB some it will allow more air flow thru, just an idea :D
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Warlord,

(3.2 getting 10% more air than needed...)

that could be the case. I was never really concerned about it until I drove the 3.2 ES. Its just smoother somehow. I've done all the regular maintenance on my R/T; air filter, Champion Platinum plugs, Mobil One oil, transmission flush with ATF4. About the only thing I haven't done is an engine flush which I've given serious thought lately. The R/T engine doesn't smoke or leak any oil, it seems to be in good shape for 91k miles.

So, my next thought is airflow. But its a thought in progress.

-Dan
 

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elboricua75 said:
01R/T SC if your looking for more airflow why not bore out your TB to 60MM. Since your going with JoeKD intake the J-Bend will be bored to allow better flow and If you open up the TB some it will allow more air flow thru, just an idea :D
Elboricua is on the right idea with increasing airflow. Increasing the airbox will allow more surface area to filter but without increasing the diameter tubing of the rest of the intake, you really aren't gonna get much benefit out of it. Actually a larger filter might allow you to go longer before changing it.
Anybody ever consider a "ram air" setup by mounting a cone filter in the cowl behind the engine, near the wipers? That would involve cutting a hole in the cowl. Depending on where you live it may or may not be a good idea. here in upstate NY, where we get snow, I don't think it would be a good idea because the filter would end up in a pile of snow that ends up in the cowl area.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
froggy81500,

I do think the larger surface area of a larger filter would help when its installed with an afternarket intake such as K&N or JoeKD's. What I'm really after is more airflow combined with better filtering.

When we install an aftermarket intake, it only makes sense to install a high flow filter such as the K&N. Otherwise the new intake doesn't provide any real benefit.

There is some debate about whether the high flow filters allow more small particles into the engine. Is it truly harmful to the engine? I don't think anyone knows for sure. There is also the issue of having to recharge the filter. Its easy enough to re-oil the filter, but if you use too much oil, it can foul the MAF sensor.

a larger airbox and filter would allow us to have higher airflow and the filtering capabilites of stock filters. And, we could buy the stock filters anywhere, which means they'd be cheap.

Just my thoughts so far,

-Dan
 

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Froggy..check out TFC..he was messing with something like that if I remember right..
 

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Think the TFC kept the same size airbox but just modified it so that it was getting more air and if I am reading 01R/T's request he is looking to get a bigger air box for the car and a different filter to get more air.

but here is the link for TFC's mod he also did a different setup for his 300M
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?t=42222
 

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01R/T_SC said:
froggy81500,

I do think the larger surface area of a larger filter would help when its installed with an afternarket intake such as K&N or JoeKD's. What I'm really after is more airflow combined with better filtering.

When we install an aftermarket intake, it only makes sense to install a high flow filter such as the K&N. Otherwise the new intake doesn't provide any real benefit.

There is some debate about whether the high flow filters allow more small particles into the engine. Is it truly harmful to the engine? I don't think anyone knows for sure. There is also the issue of having to recharge the filter. Its easy enough to re-oil the filter, but if you use too much oil, it can foul the MAF sensor.

a larger airbox and filter would allow us to have higher airflow and the filtering capabilites of stock filters. And, we could buy the stock filters anywhere, which means they'd be cheap.

Just my thoughts so far,

-Dan
You lost me on the MAF. What car do you have that has a MAF? I know what one is but as far as I know, all DC vehicles use a MAP not a MAF.

I didn't realize you were talking about upgrading the whole intake. I thought you meant just a larger airbox. Yes, then I see your point. Anything that can be done to reduce restriction is a good thing, unless you're talking about an air filter that doesn't filter very well, then that is a case where more airflow is bad. Dirty air we don't want. Keep in mind, while your ideas are good, you'll still be limited by other factors, including the size of the bore of the throttle body. Another thing to keep in mind when you're thinking about this stuff is heat. Cold air is moredense than hot air, and thus more oxygen in cold vs. hot. Anything you come up with, you will want to try it shield it from underhood temperatures as much as possible.

MikeD said:
Froggy..check out TFC..he was messing with something like that if I remember right..
I went to the link Carlos posted and that's a custom setup replacing the stock box. What I meant was coming straight off the throttle body with a filter but mounting it back in the wiper cowl.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
froggy,

it probably is a MAP instead of a MAF, I didn't check, but you know what I'm refering to. And yes, thats what I'm after, more and cleaner air. Stock filters are more restrictive, so a larger stock filter would give us both airflow and better filtering. Again, I'm not convinced filter like K&N are bad for the car. But if I can eliminate the question, then great.

I was thinking about enlarging the current inlet in the front fender that the stock setup draws air from. That would give me cool air without getting close to the ground.

Also, your question about mounting a filter near the cowl and drawing air. TFC has done soemthing just like that. I checked out KCarlos' link and I think he just linked to the wrong one. I've read TFC's post and seen the pics. He did a good job, you should be able to find it with a search.

-Dan
 

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Try this



Another View



That set-up has run 14.60s at 92 MPH
 

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MikeD got it. Yeah something along those lines. That one is knida like the "cowl induction" they used to use on the older camaros and firebirds. You know it when you see it, they had the hood that was raised higher at the back and had an opening at the back of the hood near the cowl to allow air to flow in.
Its too bad that the tb inlet is at the back and not the front. Would be a lot easier to build a true "ram air" setup with the throttle body up front. Like a Firebird ram air or the Camaro TPI injection setup.
Here's kinda what I was going for. Taking an elbow off the throttle body and turn it upward about 180 degrees. Upward and not sideways. That way the airflow would be going straight into it when you're driving. Obviously with the limited space under the hood, there isn't much room to work, which is why I was thinking intstalling it into the cowl area.
 

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I was looking at that idea as well..for me the solution is that since my hood has developed a serious case of freckles....and I found another, I am at this time bonding a cowl hood to it. It should give me that little bit of space i need, and enlarge the air intake space...then to figure out how to hook it all up, and keep the rain out.
 
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