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Hey guys, the more i hear and find out about E85 ( 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) fuel, the more it intrigues me. i heard that it is possible to do a conversion. but i was hoping maybe one of you out there were more informed than i was about this. from what i know, u need to make sure u have materials that ethanol (alcohol) wont deteriorate. also it burns at a higher rate than gasoline, so possibly new fuel injectors/ fuel pump needed, along with some kind of mod to the computer so that it will know how to set the fuel/air ratio. there are 2 kits out there called "flextech" and "flextune" and they have word for word copied descriptions of their products, under different names and company names. they claim to run out of brazil blah blah blah, system costs anywhere between 300 - 1000 **** that, that cant be right. i found it is legal to convert the car, u just need to have the safety of the conversion investigated along with passing an annual emmisions test, but screw that, MN doesnt test anymore and they dont care.

the thing ive found about E85 tho, is that it is much cheaper in MN than everywhere else. we have 203 stations that carry E85 normally, most states dont carry more than 3! and in those states E85 costs more than gas. well ****. today in minnesota, in centerville for anyone local thats interested, 87 octane was 2.809, 89 octane was like 2.939, and 91 was like 3.109 per gallon. BUT, the thing that rele caught my attention, E85 was 2.219 per gallon!!!! holy ****! i did a search around MN and that price is pretty much the same all over. wow.

im too tired to talk more about it, im already rambling


but one more thing, for anyone who doesnt know, usually when people convert to E85 or buy an E85 compatible car, it is a "flexifuel" car or Bi-fuel car. so it can take pure gasoline, pure E85, or a mixture, and it will compensate. so that is what i rele like, use E85 locally, and when i travel, and E85 isnt available, get gas


so basically my main question is if n e one knows more about this fuel. and how easy a mod is, particularly on a 1995 intrepid ES.

thx guys
 

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wel you really don't have a choice the ethanol blend is out, and its gonig to be the way it is, just the ethanol blend is fine for liek every car, its the other one i forget what it is realyl but there is another blend and that is only for FFV
 

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Tomyk89 said:
today in minnesota, in centerville for anyone local thats interested, 87 octane was 2.809, 89 octane was like 2.939, and 91 was like 3.109 per gallon.


thx guys

Wow...only 2.809? I pay 3.06 average for regular.
 

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Just to let you know that if you ahve the 3.3 engine it shoudl be fles fuel if you hav ethe 3.5 you will have to buy a kit at least thats what I was told.
 

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that's incorrect^ only certain 3.3's came flex fuel enabled
 

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http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php has some info on what cars have been made that are flex fuel cars, ones that can use either regular gas or E85. As far as converting, you're looking at replacing the entire fuel system, tank right thru to injectors. Ethanol is more corrosive than gasoline so the components need to be able to withstand that. The fuel system on your ordinary car isn't up to snuff to handle that level of ethanol. Computer programming is another issue. E85 has a 105 octane rating to slow the burn. The pcm has to take this into account to burn it properly. On flex fule cars, there's a sensor in the tank to determine what kind of fuel is in there and it lets the pcm know, so it can use the correct programming.
 

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Kensher said:
you will have to buy a kit at least thats what I was told.
tough to buy something that doesn't exist. Right now, there si nothing developed to convert cars over to flex fuel or E85.
 

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Just as the news has said (and my own research), if you look at the cost of producing flex fuel, and all the other bull ****, by the time you buy it at the pump, it can be the same, or even MORE expensive then normal gas. Sure some places it will be cheaper, same thing with gas. My advice is dont waste your time on a retarded thing like E85, sure its cool that someone finally cares, but you know what, its just not worth it, if you want a cheaper solution get a hybrid or learn how to cut costs on normal gasoline, Flex-fuel is a gay attempt at saving money.

Sorry for the attitude, but I honestly think flex fuel is a waste of time money and thought process, there are better solutions, but the top companies are being assholes about it.

Durring the clinton administration, the president pushed for a vehicle to be made that got 99mpg, guess what? there was a prototype that was tested in japan that got, 99.5miles per gallon. Guess what else? we will NEVER see this vehicle produced because the oil companies and the car companies make too much money to give a rats ass about us, think how bad the gas companies would be hit if a car was released that got 99 miles to the gallon? You'd never buy gas.

All in all there are better solutions, so I really think this country should stop wasting its resources on something that will eventually fail.
 

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Well, Japy, you seem like pretty much every American, frustrated over current gas prices. While I think E85 may be a viable solution, I think you're dead on with it might end up costing more than it saves. For instance, its already documented that these flex fuel cars get lower MPG on E85 than gas. Its possible to actually spend more on E85 to go the same distance on gas.

But, just like most Americans, I think you and I are agreed that there needs to be an alternative to gasoline. A car running 99 MPG on gasoline is great but it still runs on gas, and still leaves some dependance on oil. At least ethanol has promise as a renewable source, where we don't get f**ked because of the global market. Ethanol might not be the end-all solution to getting off gasoline, it may be a good alternative to fill in the blank space between gas and whatever is better than ethanol. Hydrogen is technology being looked into. Not sure what else is out there, but gasoline has to go sooner or later.
 

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Just to state my frustrations, I'm actually not frustrated that much by the gas prices, you know there isnt anything we can do about it. With regards to how much I spend on gas I'm irritated about the small things in my own car that cause my MPG to drop like a rock (maintanence things and a shortage of funds) but I still stand firm when I say "My intrepid will get better gas milege then your honda"

Sometimes I have mood swings, I'm an angry person =( so don't mind my angry tone or attitude at times ^_^
 

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Japy said:
"My intrepid will get better gas milege then your honda"

??? Not sure about that one. I guess it depends on which Honda, like a Passport maybe?
 

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I thought that pretty much most cars can run ethanol blend with no problems. If there was a big issues with corrosion etc, then there would have to be major program just to get everyones cars converted over. If cars couldn't run on this stuff, it wouldn't be showing up all over the place.
 

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gr8crash said:
I thought that pretty much most cars can run ethanol blend with no problems. If there was a big issues with corrosion etc, then there would have to be major program just to get everyones cars converted over. If cars couldn't run on this stuff, it wouldn't be showing up all over the place.
all cars can run on on a blend, up to a point. Once the % ethanol in the blend gets too much, it causes problems. Flex Fuel cars are capable of running 85% ethanol, regular cars cannot do that without having issues. Typically, regular gas is up to 10% ethanol. I think up here in the northeast, they go with 10% ethanol during the winter. Not too sure, but up to 10% is very common around the country.
 

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well we never had ethanol in this NE are until recent weeks. Just as most of the country as they chnge over to ethanol. I thought it was the ethanol blend that all cars can run and do just fine on, but for a more blend of more ethanol etc, you needs the flex ****. I mean how smart is it to change from methanol to ethanol and notr have any cars that can use it?
 

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Most of the refiners add it in their gasoline as an oxygenate to lower emissions. Some states even require it my law, like Minnesota. So it isn't always posted on the pumps that there is any ethanol in it. So you've been most likely using some ethanol right along and don't even realize it. But what you're probably seeing for the first time is the E85, which can be used the the "flex fuel" cars. That fuel is different from everyday gas and won't work well in ordinary cars.
 

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Well, yera out west i have used e85 hre and there and it was fine. Here in the NE ie around philly, we just started for the 1st time to get ehtanol at the pumps. It was methanol until 2 weeks ago, now its ethanol. So maybe ehtanol is different somewhat then E85, becasue if pretty much everyone is going to have to be using ehtanol soon if not already it wouldn't mke sense for them to make it is no one could use it. And use it long term
 

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E85 is ethanol, 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. That high a content of ethanol can't be used in regular cars.
 

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So I'm just wondering, what if someone actually ran it in a non flex fuel car? would it damage ****? or be like a hardcore cleaning agent :p
 
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