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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, I have a new 3.3 mod idea to think about.

The 3.3 in almost all vehicals came with AC, and thus the AC compressor. In removing the AC compressor you have two options:
1) find (operative word there being FIND) a AC delete pulley for the 3.3 like those used in AC-less minivans sold in Europe
2) run a smaller belt and just drive the water pump backwords (not as effective in terms of your coolant system).

Now- they make kits, be it for only the more popular performance engines (say the 360, 440 etc) for having an electric driven mechanical water pump, which installed looks kinda like this (pic from Moroso's website):



Its a 12 volt motor on a bracket used to belt drive the water pump pulley.

Its claimed to take some 5-20 hp depending on the engine and rpm to drive the mechanical water pump. So my thought:

Delete the AC system, pull the AC compressor- run a smaller belt that does not drive EITHER the AC compressor (which is gone) or the water pump.

Throw a home made bracket where the AC compressor *was* and use it to belt drive the water pump.

Summit carries the replacement parts for the Moroso kit so one could buy the parts they need w/out buying a whole kit, motor alone is only like ~$45 USD.

So what do you all think? Worth looking into? All I have left on my car from the AC system is the AC compressor so I would be killing two birds with one electric stone if I could pull this one off.
 

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Looks doable... I'm not much for the actual mod because of the heat we get up here, and I kinda like my AC, but if its within your budget and time... Shoot, give it a whirl and see what happens?
 

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You need to be damned sure that the cars electrical (battery, alternator, AND wiring) can power the electric water pump properly.

Properly includes building up and maintaining pressure in the system.
 

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Hopefully the thing isn't designed for track use only. It might not be built well enough for year around daily-driver use in all kinds of weather.
 

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also, the 3.3l's in the intrepids aren't powered by the belt for the a/c compressor.. they are on the powersteering and alternator belt..
 

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These sort of setups are for track use. I dobt it would be suitable for an everyday driven vehicle.
An engine driven pump is much more suitable and dependable for a street vehicle.

You could try it out though.

Cheers

BJ
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Aparently its a ~50 watt motor which at 12 volts draws something like 4 amps.

I cant seem to find a thread on varrious car boards via google where someone has burnt one out BUT, most people who do electric water pumps get an electric water pump (not an electric drive).

If I could find a 100 watt, 12 volt brushless motor it should be strong enough for daily driver applications- but now we are talking closer to 10 amps for something compariable to what is used in electric wheel chairs, scooters etc. Brushless would be key- longer motor life.

Have yet to find if the moroso motor is brushless or not....

Also, you say the intrepid 3.3s have a different belt setup- anyone got a diagram?
 

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Well look at it this way as well A known rule is that one horse power equals something close to 768 watts of energy so Being a 50 watt motor it would equal to around 1/15th of a horsepower.

Mabey 1/5th (being VERY conservitave) due to the smaller mototr VS pump pulley,Also what are the motor's RPM's? And cut that by about a 1:10 ratio it looks like? Too slow.

Quite frankly i wouldn't trust it,I put thicker wiring and a realy to the 'high' setting on my wipers to make them run at full tilt when in pouring rain and that motor draws more than 4 amps,My two cents,Way too weak to build up and maintain pressure for the hundreds of hours of runtime that your engine see as a daily driver.

Also i can spin my waterpump by hand (3.3L) when the belts off fast enoough to get water flowing through the radiator so how much power does it 'really' take to run it?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Seems to me that if there is a problem with this thing putting the water pump rpm at a high enough figure, that should be fixiable by using a correct pulley setup.

The motor turns at abt 2700 rpms, so if the motor pulley is 3 times the size of the water pump pulley, it should turn the water pump at a figure a bit higher than 2700 rpms. One could prolly talor the pulley arrangement to have the water pump consistantly turn at a figure more realistic to a wide range of driving use, such as 5000 rpms.

i noticed Moroso makes a water pump pulley replacement for just this purpose, increases the water pump rpm by something like 30%- so now the people who have done this mod and had a problem with the pump spinning too low, did they try that pulley or were they only running the basic kit (until they got fed up with it and went back to OEM)?
 

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Keep us up to date on your findings and what you plan on doing... I myself will stick with oem, but curious to see how things unfold for ya...

The last thing you definetly want is the elec motor failing though, but looks like your putting a lot of research into it...

Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Yea, which is why I prolly wont end up using the Moroso motor, they just arent giving the public enough specs for me to sleep well at night.

If I kenw:
1) if the people who have had probs were only running the basic kit
2) what is required in power/work to drive the water pump

I could probably develope something that would work better using a brushless motor, perhaps larger alternator, and the right pulley setup.

I am surprised no one has yet developed an electrical drive kit aimed at daily driven applications.

I am fairly confident that the 12 volt electric wheelchair/scooter motors would be able to do the job fairly easily- and I *know* they make brushless ones of those. Getting a 2700 rpm motor to turn a pump at 5000 rpms would be easy I think... and throw in the fact a water pump doing 5k rpm all the time would translate into a *much* more effective cooling system, especially in stop and go traffic, idling etc.
 

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I've seen a few cars running electric drives daily. one 78 vette, and one 86 camero. i dont know if htey ever had any problems with them, but i know that the guy with the camero drove it for about 4 years before he sold it, and the the vette was relegated to track duty a while back. so they seemed to have worked well. and this electric water pump is something i have put thought into myself, but i havent found anything that inspires confidence as a daily driven part. i have also considered finding one that could operate the power steering pump. but again no luck. you would also have to have an idler pulley or relocate the alternator so you would have proper contact surface between the pulley and belt. so i guess i'll pick up my research on the idea as well and post anything i find.
 

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Ive already found four kits similar to that one, and they (including the moroso) are for drag use only. our best bet will be a remote mount water pump. they have the at www.jegs.com in the cooling section. im doin some research on those. the flow up to 35 gallons a minute. the ones at csr look
 

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Not a clue.
Maybe if I could see the back side. I am guessing it is german, so probably Bosch.

But the BMW has a computer controlling the pump output, and the coolant fans air output (no more mechanical belt driven cooling fan on the N52 as on M54), and I am guessing that there isn't a thermostat anymore (no need)

So by having a coolant pump running at a constant output all the time, no variable duty cycle?, the computer will have to regulate the coolant temperature by varying the amount of on/off time of the fans.
In the FSM for the 2002 on page 208(part A), it seems to imply that the high vehicle speed operation cooling is not handled by the fans, and the air dam serves a very important purpose (getting air through the radiator)

I am thinking that slow speed going will be okay, and hot summer high speed highway might be a problem, if the coolant flow output is too small.
Granted that would make a better radiator (hotter is better), but the computer would go all nuts thinking the oil is overheating in the transmission, etc. and go into overheat, and superoverheat modes.
 

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i still like the idea of hte remote mount water pump. it doesnt have the drag use only disclaimer. and you could put it anywhere you want. im thinkin havin a thermo switch. so it would only turn on when the coolant was hot enough to open the thermostat.
 
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