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hey guys
my cars been acting odd and cant make it to far im gettin 7 mpg according to evic and its stalling i replaced the cam position sensor and ti ran great for a day now its giving the following codes a few i may have tripped

1684
0108
1297
0354

i think the map is bad

and I noticed i had a code for a misfire on #4 so i was messing with it and whent he enigne is running if i unplug the #4 harness off the coil the einge doesnt respond but when i unplug another coil it stumbles for a second is this a bad coil?.

is there a way to test the MAP autozone says no but i hate to replace it at 90 bucks and then finding one in stock

thanks guys
 

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Sorry to hear that you're having these problems Jeff. Don't know much about this particular problem but, from the description of the codes you list, I would change that MAP sensor out. That's just me though! Sensors fail and need to be replaced ... its probably just time (or at least I hope that's all there is to it). In any event it's a start.

0108 - MAP sensor voltage too high
1297 - The MAP sensor doesn't change its reading when the engine is running!
0354 - Coil #4 is not reaching peak current at the right time.

Hope you find the solution soon. Good luck.
 

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Not very familiar with the 2.7L - does the MAP wiring come out of the harness at the same place as #4 coil wire (just a weird thought)? I assume you've looked over the plug and wires going to the MAP?

Also, you can change the coils for #4 and (say) #2 to see if the problem follows the coil or stays at #4 ...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
D76G12 said:
Not very familiar with the 2.7L - does the MAP wiring come out of the harness at the same place as #4 coil wire (just a weird thought)? I assume you've looked over the plug and wires going to the MAP?

Also, you can change the coils for #4 and (say) #2 to see if the problem follows the coil or stays at #4 ...

i did swap the coils and it still seems the same though the wires are cracked like they are brittle and been bent and cracked they arent touching or anyhitng and i spread them apart from each other. what controls the coil PCM?
 

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The coils are controlled by the PCM, as far as I understand, based on the information gathered from several sensors including crankshaft position, camshaft position, and manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor. The ASD relay provides battery voltage to the coils, however the PCM controls the sparks.
D76G12 has a good point about checking the wires going to the MAP sensor. It sounds like the PCM might be trying to update engine operation but the MAP is not providing the info it needs hence the code 1297. Since manifold pressure is different depending on driving conditions (speed, altitude, temperature, etc.) the PCM is expecting different voltage ranges from the MAP in order to adapt and maintain engine efficiency.
If you haven't already, check out section 14 of the FSM for more info on the MAP. Hope this helps somehow and someone else chimes in.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
 

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IntrepidCUB said:
i did swap the coils and it still seems the same though the wires are cracked like they are brittle and been bent and cracked they arent touching or anyhitng and i spread them apart from each other. what controls the coil PCM?
Sounds like you've got a short somewhere between the PCM and the upper engine. The MAP sensor wires and coil grounds probably follow the same path in the engine harness - my bet is you'll find a bad section in the harness if you trace it back to the PCM ...
 

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D76G12 said:
Also, you can change the coils for #4 and (say) #2 to see if the problem follows the coil or stays at #4 ...
That is a very good way to test the coils. Works for fuel injectors also. Do that and see if you end up getting a misfire code on whatever cylinder you put the #4 coil on. Oh, and label them before you swap them around. If you do get a misfire on the cylinder where ever you put the "suspect" coil, then you have a bad coil, otherwise start looking at the wiring.

As far as the MAP sensor, turn the key on and check the sensor ground wire and make sure its grounded and check the +5 volt wire and make sure you've got 5 volts. Given that there are 2 codes showing a MAP sensor issue its pretty certain that the sensor is shot. Not sure about checking the 3rd wire, the signal wire. But if the wiring checks out, then next step is another MAP sensor.
 

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as far as the 1684 code, you'll need to get your engine up to operating temperature, then turn the ignition off. turn they key to the on position and then back to the off position. do this until a "1684" apperars on your odometer (takes about 3 times). keep the key on until your odometer reads "done". this will clear the codes for ya....
 

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ulintze29 said:
as far as the 1684 code, you'll need to get your engine up to operating temperature, then turn the ignition off. turn they key to the on position and then back to the off position. do this until a "1684" apperars on your odometer (takes about 3 times). keep the key on until your odometer reads "done". this will clear the codes for ya....
:confused:
 

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Heres a little info that may help with the MAP issue. Also the only way to clear the trouble codes with out a scan tool is to disconnect the negative battery terminal for 1 minute.

MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE SENSOR-PCM INPUT
The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) supplies 5 volts to the MAP sensor. The MAP sensor converts intake manifold pressure into voltage. The PCM monitors the MAP sensor output voltage. As vacuum increases, MAP sensor voltage decreases proportionately. Also, as vacuum decreases, MAP sensor voltage increases proportionately.

During cranking, before the engine starts running, the PCM determines atmospheric air pressure from the MAP sensor voltage. While the engine operates, the PCM determines intake manifold pressure from the MAP sensor voltage. Based on MAP sensor voltage and inputs from other sensors, the PCM adjusts spark advance and the air/fuel mixture.

The MAP sensor mounts to the driver side of the intake manifold plenum.
P0108 MAP Sensor Voltage Too High

P1297 No Change In MAP Sensor From Start to Run

NAME OF CODE
No Change in MAP From Start to Run

WHEN MONITORED
With engine rpm above 400 but less than 1500 and the throttle body at closed throttle.

SET CONDITION
Too small a difference is seen between barometric pressure at ignition on and manifold vacuum (engine running) for 1.76 seconds .

THEORY OF OPERATION
This sensor measures manifold absolute pressure and ambient barometric pressure within the manifold. It provides a 0 to 5-volt signal to PCM cavity 36. The MAP sensor puts out a low voltage signal (0.5 to 1.8 volts ) at idle when the manifold vacuum is high and a higher voltage signal (3.9 to 4.8 volts ) at deep throttle when the manifold vacuum is low. The MAP receives a 5-volt supply from PCM cavity 61; voltage may vary from 4.8 to 5.1 volts . The sensor ground is provided by PCM cavity 43.

POSSIBLE CAUSES


Restricted or leaking vacuum/pressure to MAP sensor
Ice in sensor or passage
Failed sensor
PCM failure
Connector terminals
Connector wires


NAME OF CODE
MAP Sensor Voltage Too High

WHEN MONITORED
With engine rpm above 600 out less than 3500 and the TP sensor voltage less than 1.0 volt .

SET CONDITION
The MAF sensor signal voltage is greater than 4.9 volts at start or with the engine running for 2.0 seconds .

THEORY OF OPERATION
This sensor measures manifold absolute pressure and ambient barometric pressure within the manifold. It provides a 0 to 5-volt signal to PCM cavity 35. The MAP sensor puts out a low voltage signal (0.5 to 1.8 volts ) at idle when the manifold vacuum is high and a higher voltage signal (3.9 to 4.8 volts ) at deep throttle when the manifold is low. The MAP receives a 5-volt supply from PCM cavity 61; voltage may vary from 4.8 to 5.1 volts . The sensor ground is provided by PCM cavity 43.

POSSIBLE CAUSES

Signal circuit open
Sensor open internally
Sensor ground circuit
Sensor signal circuit shorted to voltage
PCM failure
Connector terminals
Connector wires
 

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Good info, Steve. Thinking about this logically, since 2 different MAP codes come up, chances are that both codes are the result of the same problem. So the first items to check on your list would be whatever issues are common to both codes:

1.Connector terminals
2.Connector wires
3.Failed sensor (Sensor open internally, pretty much the sensor is shot)
4.PCM failure

I think checking them in that order is the most logical since the PCM is probably the last of the bunch to fail and the connections wires probably the most likely.
 

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froggy81500 said:
Good info, Steve. Thinking about this logically, since 2 different MAP codes come up, chances are that both codes are the result of the same problem. So the first items to check on your list would be whatever issues are common to both codes:

1.Connector terminals
2.Connector wires
3.Failed sensor (Sensor open internally, pretty much the sensor is shot)
4.PCM failure

I think checking them in that order is the most logical since the PCM is probably the last of the bunch to fail and the connections wires probably the most likely.
I agree ... and not to mention the most cost effective approach to the problem.
 
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