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Discussion Starter #1
2000 Intrepid 2.7 ( I know). I only have 91k miles on the car.

Replaced OEM Crank and Cam position sensors when problem started.

Problem(s):
1. Miss when idling after car warms up.
2. Drives perfecto when cold - warms up, bucks stutters. (Hasn't stalled out on me - yet).

After it reaches temp, I can sit in park or in-gear and the miss happens.... could be 10 seconds, 40 second, or even up to two minutes before it will miss again and/or be random.

Oil is clean - looks like new even after 1000 miles of driving.
But - I am running about 220 degrees on water temp, IAC is around 110

I have an HP Tuner to monitor since I have a 2006 RAM that I go back and forth on Tunes based on pulling my boat or just everyday running around.

It runs so smooth when it is cold, no ticks or air sucking I can hear.

No codes except the 1684 because I put a new battery in it three days ago when I did the sensors.

Any help would be grateful
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Ok - changed the plugs - no joy.

Idles a 'little' better but, of course.

Now - driving the stutter is almost like a tranny shift issue but, If I floor it, it's almost like I have a rev-imiter set at 2500 rpms.

Oil still clear as a bell and coolant clean as a whistle......

Stumped. - new coil packs??
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Also - at temp, turned on heat no smell from vents and no sweet smell from exhaust although just a touch of smoke but dissipates rather quickly - thinking evaporation possibly.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So my Actron is reading this which makes me think the sensors I replaced may be 'not so good'....

this is at idle and at temp

Idle RPM - 700
IGN ADV - 14.0
ABSLT TPS 12.2

Those numbers do not look right.... any suggestions?
 

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If you can't rev past 2500 rpm most likely a Cam Position Sensor or associated wiring. Dealer only recommended for replacement Cam sensor. Buy aftermarket crap at your own risk and money!
 

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self deleted
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Still don't get it? Just needing advice. This is my son's car and bought crank and cam sensor from local dealership.

Guess I picked the wrong forum.

Thanks anyways guys.
 

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Woober Goobers!
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Guess so. I also indicated associated wiring. Cam sensor may not be the problem and possibly the wiring. Intermittent failures may not throw a code until a hard failure.

What I was pointing out was that reluctance to rev past 2500 rpm is almost always related to the Cam Position Sensor circuit. Can't really troubleshoot that one over the internet. You need to break out a multimeter and take readings to verify good connections between the CMP and the PCM, etc.

The readings you provided above are pretty much irrelevant to this issue. If it's CMP related then Intake air temp and the rest mean nothing.
 

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Here's some possibilities for your conditions from the Factory Service manual when no trouble codes are present:

HESITATION/
SAG/
STUMBLE

CHECKING SECONDARY
IGNITION SYSTEM
CHECKING PCM POWER
AND GND CKT
CHECKING ENGINE VACUUM
CHECKING THE FUEL
PRESSURE
CHECKING COOLANT SENSOR
CALIBRATION
CHECKING THROTTLE POSITION
SENSOR CALIBRATION
CHECKING MAP SENSOR
CALIBRATION
CHECKING THE MINIMUM
IDLE AIR FLOW
CHECKING FOR OXYGEN
SENSOR SWITCHING
CHECKING O2S HEATER
CHECKING IDLE AIR CONTROL
MOTOR OPERATION
CHECKING ENGINE MECHANICAL
SYSTEMS
CHECKING EVAP EMISSION
SYSTEM
CHECKING EGR SYSTEM
CHECKING IAT SENSOR
CHECKING PNP SWITCH

Good luck.
 

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Woober Goobers!
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And here's the code you might normally see with CMP sensor problems and possible causes:

Symptom:
P1391-INTERMITTENT LOSS OF CMP OR CKP

When Monitored and Set Condition:
P1391-INTERMITTENT LOSS OF CMP OR CKP

When Monitored: Engine running or cranking.
Set Condition: When the failure counter reaches 20 for 2 consecutive trips.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
DAMAGED TONE WHEEL/FLEX PLATE (CRANKSHAFT)
DAMAGED TONE WHEEL/PULSE RING (CAMSHAFT)
INTERMITTENT CMP SIGNAL LOSS WHEN WIRING IS WIGGLED
INTERMITTENT CKP SIGNAL LOSS WHEN WIRING IS WIGGLED
IRREGULAR LAB SCOPE PATTERN OF CKP SIGNAL
IRREGULAR LAB SCOPE PATTERN OF CMP SIGNAL
CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
SENSOR CONNECTOR/WIRING
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
 

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I started composing my post and got interrupted, and returned to complete it about a half hour later, not realizing that Ron had posted essentially the same information about the 2500 rpm (PCM runs ignition timing off of crankshaft position sensor up to 2500 rpm, then switches timing over too cam position sensor. If no cam sensor signal, engine can't run over 2500 rpm). Since duplicate info., I deleted my post.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
And here's the code you might normally see with CMP sensor problems and possible causes:

Symptom:
P1391-INTERMITTENT LOSS OF CMP OR CKP

When Monitored and Set Condition:
P1391-INTERMITTENT LOSS OF CMP OR CKP

When Monitored: Engine running or cranking.
Set Condition: When the failure counter reaches 20 for 2 consecutive trips.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
DAMAGED TONE WHEEL/FLEX PLATE (CRANKSHAFT)
DAMAGED TONE WHEEL/PULSE RING (CAMSHAFT)
INTERMITTENT CMP SIGNAL LOSS WHEN WIRING IS WIGGLED
INTERMITTENT CKP SIGNAL LOSS WHEN WIRING IS WIGGLED
IRREGULAR LAB SCOPE PATTERN OF CKP SIGNAL
IRREGULAR LAB SCOPE PATTERN OF CMP SIGNAL
CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
SENSOR CONNECTOR/WIRING
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
Ok - Bad day at the office and wasn't in good mood. My Bad - mea culpa for the pissy attitude - catching $hit from the Son isn't helping either..... So - my apologies to you guys.

Anyway - will start working on these possibilities. I have the day off so, I will get on it and get back to all on Sunday unless I find something earlier.
 

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Pulling a rabbit from my hat, Idle Air Control valve. The fact it runs good when cold is the big tip off to me. It can be taken apart, cleaned and put back into service My bet is that it is stuck (gunked) in the engine cold position.
 

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Ok - changed the plugs - no joy.

Idles a 'little' better but, of course.

Now - driving the stutter is almost like a tranny shift issue but, If I floor it, it's almost like I have a rev-imiter set at 2500 rpms.

Oil still clear as a bell and coolant clean as a whistle......

Stumped. - new coil packs??
MAP sensor. Mine did the exact same thing as your car
 

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Ok - changed the plugs - no joy.

Idles a 'little' better but, of course.

Now - driving the stutter is almost like a tranny shift issue but, If I floor it, it's almost like I have a rev-imiter set at 2500 rpms.

Oil still clear as a bell and coolant clean as a whistle......

Stumped. - new coisensor
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Sorry guys, haven't tried anything yet. I had a couple of emergencies at work and yesterday started my vacation down here in Miramar Beach... so it will be another couple of weeks before I get to your suggestions. Will let you know though.
 
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