[eagle4x]

Update:

2nd day after installing light switch and climate control car started. However, after driving car today and turning it off, the oil light and transmission selector light stayed on. Also, when jiggling the key in the switch, the oil light flickered. I got the lights to turn off by starting car and turning off a few times and then removing the key.

Someone in another post on this forum reported same problem and it was speculated by some (peva, daytrepper, micholob) cause likely a bad ignition switch (see below)...so my next step is to replace it.

Oil light on when ignition is off

So a couple days ago I noticed my oil light comes on after I shut the car off with the key out of the ignition. I can try and put the key in, cycle it, and it doesn't go back off. After a while the light does go off though. Also, it's not fully lit like when you start the car, it's dim. It was...

www.dodgeintrepid.net

The OP in that thread, like many others, didn't post outcome of problem he reported...very irritating.

 

[Ronbo]

Is there some reason you didn't buy a new ignition switch?

05014176AA about $40 from the dealer.

And if moving the key in the lock cylinder has some effect, it's probably time for a NEW lock cylinder.

 

[eagle4x]

I mistakenly thought the switch was $150. I called dealer after I read your email and got it for $27 because last one and discontinued. Just finished installing it and much easier than thought would be. There is a green dot on end of old switch from the trep...not sure if that is an inspectors mark or if it was marked at a salvage yard. Anyway, after installed the car starts solid with no oil lights. I'll wait to see if battery drains before replacing cylinder, and I'll post update on thread with some steps I took to save time not in the fsm. Thanks!

 

[eagle4x]

Today I noticed that the key could be removed from the ignition cylinder in two different positions, and one of them is when the oil light is on. I had to move shifter down/up and then move the key other notch or two to remove the key so oil light not on dash. Sometimes when battery drained the oil light not on when key removed, so I know it was removed in correct position of cylinder. I ordered a new cylinder and will replace on Thursday.

Also, noticed there is a hairline crack on positive end of battery terminal keeping it from tightening completely. Will replace tomorrow.

Peva mentioned checking tie rod end near battery cable to see if rubbing any wires but did not see any. The front end of car making a rumbling noise so I took it to a garage and was told both the inner tie rods need replacing. I'll ask to check during that time if it is rubbing against any wires, and if so, if any are frayed.

Did another test on the fuses, and meter readings indicated there may be a problem with 20 amp TCM fuse in the fuse box in engine compartment, but I called another friend said that's normal due to nature of the TCM.

The most difficult part about removing the ignition switch is accessing the top screw located behind the multi-function switch...need an E4 torx socket to remove bolt on side and top. I didn't remove the pin connector on the multi-function switch as FSM instructs...just pushed it up to access the top screw on the ignition switch.

Tip: Go to salvage yard and remove one from similar car to get experience how to do it before possibly damaging components in your vehicle. After removing the switch, install it back for add'l experience.

 

[peva]

"The front end of car making a rumbling noise so I took it to a garage and was told both the inner tie rods need replacing."

I recommend replacing the inner tie rod bushings only. The inner tie rods themselves should last forever unless some very unique and unusual cause for a problem. Best not to disturb the toe adjusting sleeves unless you replace them with the aftermarket type that have the large hex shape for adjusting - most companies offer both types - only get the ones with the large hex. By now, most of the adjusters are corroded and impossible to adjust without them cracking and breaking apart - as a result, some alignment shops opt not to adjust toe even if needed and don't tell you that and that the sleeves need replacing. I'm just saying that corroded adjuster sleeves can be impossible to adjust without breaking them - especially the factory ones with the small diameter knurled grip surface. Best to replace with ones with large hex, and grease the outer threads of the adjusting sleeve and the outer tie rods with a good chassis or bearing grease to prevent corrosion.

Of course toe needs to be properly adjusted if sleeve or tie rods are disassembled or replaced. Simply replacing the inner tie rod bushings should not require re-alignment unless it was already needed anyway. (If toe was adjust when the bushings were worn, then it would be a good idea to have toe adjusted after bushings are replaced.)

If the inner tie rod bolts get replaced with a bushing kit, most likely the heads will be smaller than the factory bolt heads. The locking tabs don't work properly to keep the smaller-head bolts from loosening and backing out (has happened to more than a few people on this forum). Strongly recommend putting blue thread locker on the bolt threads as extra insurance - even if the bolt heads are the larger ones, but especially if the they are the smaller heads.

Just offering unsolicited advice based on experience.

 

[eagle4x]

"The front end of car making a rumbling noise so I took it to a garage and was told both the inner tie rods need replacing."

I recommend replacing the inner tie rod bushings only. The inner tie rods themselves should last forever unless some very unique and unusual cause for a problem. Best not to disturb the toe adjusting sleeves unless you replace them with the aftermarket type that have the large hex shape for adjusting - most companies offer both types - only get the ones with the large hex. By now, most of the adjusters are corroded and impossible to adjust without them cracking and breaking apart - as a result, some alignment shops opt not to adjust toe even if needed and don't tell you that and that the sleeves need replacing. I'm just saying that corroded adjuster sleeves can be impossible to adjust without breaking them - especially the factory ones with the small diameter knurled grip surface. Best to replace with ones with large hex, and grease the outer threads of the adjusting sleeve and the outer tie rods with a good chassis or bearing grease to prevent corrosion.

Of course toe needs to be properly adjusted if sleeve or tie rods are disassembled or replaced. Simply replacing the inner tie rod bushings should not require re-alignment unless it was already needed anyway. (If toe was adjust when the bushings were worn, then it would be a good idea to have toe adjusted after bushings are replaced.)

If the inner tie rod bolts get replaced with a bushing kit, most likely the heads will be smaller than the factory bolt heads. The locking tabs don't work properly to keep the smaller-head bolts from loosening and backing out (has happened to more than a few people on this forum). Strongly recommend putting blue thread locker on the bolt threads as extra insurance - even if the bolt heads are the larger ones, but especially if the they are the smaller heads.

Just offering unsolicited advice based on experience.

Thanks! However, I read your post after work already done. I gave mechanic a 6pc kit I purchased from 1A Auto (2 inner and 2 outer tie rods, and 2 stabilizer bars)...brand is TRQ. He showed me old ones after removed, and worst was driver's side inner tie rod...the bushing had fell out. Cost only $120 labor + $60 alignment plus parts. I showed mechanic your post when I picked up the car and he said he already did what you suggested, Car driving great now. Regarding the battery drain, still starting every day...will just keep monitoring it. Having a new cylinder rekeyed tomorrow at suggestion of Ronbo (Thanks to him as well). I'll post any updates.

 

[peva]

Thanks! However, I read your post after work already done. I gave mechanic a 6pc kit I purchased from 1A Auto (2 inner and 2 outer tie rods, and 2 stabilizer bars)...brand is TRQ. He showed me old ones after removed, and worst was driver's side inner tie rod...the bushing had fell out. Cost only $120 labor + $60 alignment plus parts. I showed mechanic your post when I picked up the car and he said he already did what you suggested, Car driving great now. Regarding the battery drain, still starting every day...will just keep monitoring it. Having a new cylinder rekeyed tomorrow at suggestion of Ronbo (Thanks to him as well). I'll post any updates.

Good for replacing all the tie rods - you know you're good for the outers now too. Kit probably had the small diameter knurled adjusting sleeves. But even if so, you'll be good tor a long while.

You said included stabilizer bars - maybe you meant adjuster sleeves?

Bushing was gone! Wow - must have driven like crap.

Nice that you apparently fixed the battery drain!

 

[eagle4x]

Good for replacing all the tie rods - you know you're good for the outers now too. Kit probably had the small diameter knurled adjusting sleeves. You'll be good tor a long while.

You said included stabilizer bars - maybe you meant adjuster sleeves?

Bushing was gone! Wow - must have driven like crap.

Nice that you apparently fixed the battery drain!

Attached is pic of kit I purchased and pics of old/new of driver's side tie rods. I kept old parts just in case...bushings can be replaced if need to reuse the parts.

I probably could of done it myself since I replaced ball joints on my suv, but I'm slow and didn't have time..my time more valuable than the $120 labor for the shop to do it. Firestone quoted $1K parts and labor for just the inner and outer tie rods.

Yeah, drove like crap, but all good now. Thanks again.

 

[peva]

Oh - the kit came with sway bar end links. 👍 The A1Auto photo shows it did come with the small-diameter knurled adjuster sleeves, but it looks from your last photo that you ended up with the "good" ones with the hex (came with the kit? or you cleaned up and re-used your old ones that had already been changed to the hex ones?).

Maybe he didn't grease the threads? But probably not worth taking it all apart to do that.

 

[eagle4x]

Oh - the kit came with sway bar end links. 👍 The A1Auto photo shows it did come with the small-diameter knurled adjuster sleeves, but it looks from your last photo that you ended up with the "good" ones with the hex (came with the kit? or you cleaned up and re-used your old ones that had already been changed to the hex ones?).

Maybe he didn't grease the threads? But probably not worth taking it all apart to do that.

He used new ones that came with the kit. I think he said he greased the sleeves.

Another topic, but I'll ask here:
When I took car to Firestone to check front end, I told rep. that I didn't think trans fluid was changed by previous owner and asked about changing it. He checked dipstick and said fluid looked good and said it could cause damage changing fluid because of metal shavings, and suggested adding a chemical additive instead. What's your opinion?

 

[peva]

Oops - on looking at you photos again, the adj. sleeves are the knurled kind. At least they're new. It takes 3 or more years for the corrosion to be a problem depending on your location.

No additives in transmission. If they were to flush it, they almost surely would use a "universal" type ATF that will cause problems - the entire auto service industry was brainwashed that a "universal" fluid will work in our cars in place of ATF+4. That has been proven over and over on this forum to be b. s. If a "universal" fluid is not good, why would a one-size-fits-all additive renew the fluid. Maybe, but sounds risky.

If you do have the fluid replaced at a shop, make them prove to you that they would use ATF+4, and don't accept any explanation that there's is equivalent or otherwise suitable - unless the labeling shows it to be certified ATF+4 (not just showing ATF+4 in a list of fluids that it will replace).

 

[eagle4x]

Oops - on looking at you photos again, the adj. sleeves are the knurled kind. At least they're new. It takes 3 or more years for the corrosion to be a problem depending on your location.

No additives in transmission. If they were to flush it, they almost surely would use a "universal" type ATF that will cause problems - the entire auto service industry was brainwashed that a "universal" fluid will work in our cars in place of ATF+4. That has been proven over and over on this forum to be b. s. If a "universal" fluid is not good, why would a one-size-fits-all additive renew the fluid. Maybe, but sounds risky.

If you do have the fluid replaced at a shop, make them prove to you that they would use ATF+4, and don't accept any explanation that there's is equivalent or otherwise suitable - unless the labeling shows it to be certified ATF+4 (not just showing ATF+4 in a list of fluids that it will replace).

If transmission fluid looks good on dipstick, still a good idea to change it with ATF +4 anyway and install new filter?

The car has 134K miles. Are transmissions on the 2nd gen cars reliable? Asking because I've already sunk about $500 in the car the last few weeks and trying to avoid spending any more on it if possible, but I'll get the fluid changed if needed.

 

[eagle4x]

Update:
Drove trep to locksmith and removed ignition cylinder in parking lot to get new one re-keyed. When locksmith disassembled my old cylinder he said it was in very bad condition. After he finished, I installed it and car started and key could only be removed from one position vs 2 with the old one. I think this was probably cause of battery drain. Maybe other times when I thought oil light not on due to key being removed from wrong position, probably the dimmer switch was turned off so oil light wasn't visible.

Another possibility, but slim, is the CD player not working...probably because the toggle on the radio that controls cd player is loose. Better to replace the radio or the CD player or both?

 

[eagle4x]

I purchased a voltmeter car battery monitor for the trep and inserted in cig lighter:
13.6: key turned on without starting engine
13.8: engine at 1500 rpm's without headlights/heat turned on
13.8: engine at 1500 rpm's with headlights/heat turned on

With voltmeter leads directly on battery:
12.68: car turned off
13.87: engine at idle with headlights/heat turned on
14.02: engine at 1500 rpm's without headlights/heat turned on

I then inserted the voltmeter monitor in my son's Concorde and reading 14.2 with car turned on and when running.

I installed new Duracell battery in trep yesterday, and it has a new alternator. Battery on Concorde about 2 yr old.

1) Why difference in readings between the voltmeter monitor and voltmeter, and could this indicate the battery may drain again soon? If so, how to fix it?

2) Why the voltmeter monitor in the trep lower than the Concorde (same generation vehicles)?

 

[peva]

<0.2V difference isn't all that much. 0.2/14 = <1-1/2%
That's a pretty small error as these things go. The bulk of that difference could easily be accounted for with factory tolerance on the regulation, primarily determined by a reference voltage inside the PCM. Probably spec'd at +\-5 or 2%.

You'd have differences due to ambient temperature at different times of day, differenct locations, shade, sun, etc. The voltage setpoint is decreased with higher trmperatyre and vice-versa.

Also, small differences in cable and connection resistance between the battery and PCM (resulting in voltage drop between battery and PCM) would be another source of difference between the two cars. Assuming the setpoins at the PCMs were exactly the same, the car with more total resistance between battery and PCM would read a higher voltage at the battery. This is assuming you measured both cars at the battery.

But again, less than 0.2 volts difference for nominal 14 volts is not a big difference percentage-wise. Fuggedaboutit!

"13.6: key turned on without starting engine"
My guess is that you meant to type "12.6" or something like that. No way you'd have 13.6 with engine not running.