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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,
I just subscribed to this forum after getting great information on my poor idle problem. Thanks to everyone who has written about the engine codes and intake manifold gaskets. I have a '96, 3.5L Intrepid with just over 100k miles on it for reference. In any case, I decided to pull the intake manifold off today to check the gaskets and, the good news is that the #6 intake gasket was blown out. The bad news is that two bolts snapped off while I was taking them out (that's right, out). I got one out but, one is still in. So far I've tried heat, lots of WD40 and hitting it squarely with a hammer to see if it would break loose. So far no luck but, at worst I'll borrow an extraction kit and see if I can drill it out. Any other suggestions would here would be appreciated. The second question is what is the reccommended torque for these bolts? I've ordered a complete set (6 short, 2 long) that should be in by Monday and already have the gasket kit ($5.95 at NAPA).

Thanks,

Chris H.
 

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torque is 250 inch pounds...and i recommend some anti-sieze compound on installation in case you ever need to take it off again. also...is it broke off flusk? if not then drip some oil on the threads and let it sit for about 15 minuts then try a pair of vice grips to spin it loose.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The lone remaining bolt is sticking up about 1/2" above the head. I'm definitely coating the new bolts with anti-sieze when they go back in for the next guy (hopefully not me). The bolt is happily right up front on the driver's side but, it's still not an easy spot to get a good bite on with vise grips thanks to the angle. My guess is that electrolisis has taken it's toll between the steel bolt and aluminum head. It's going to soak in WD40 overnight then I'll try it again tomorrow. The other bolt that broke twisted off right at the bolt head. It was at the opposite end and side of the intake manifold right at #6 and broke with hardly any force. Thanks for the torque!


Chris H.
 

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Kissle96, reading your post was almost like reading my own storey. The frozen bolts go into blind holes, unlike the middle ones.
My back bolt was stubborn but it came out. My front bolt was also seized. Bolt shank corroded to the intake and the threads seized to the aluminum head. I tried to extract it but gave up and drilled it and tapped it.
File the bolt flat, punch the center and drill a small hole.
I found a 1/8 pipe nipple, threaded in my intake bolt hole to act as a guide for drilling straight, key to a successful job.
It is a M8x1.25. Use a 17/64 drill or a 6.8mm.
I should get back out to the garage to finish.
 

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Since the bolt is sticking out of the head, I would highly reccommend that you use a stud remover. You might be able to rent one from an outo parts store, or someplace like NAPA
I own one, just in case.

This is a new Snap-on set. You should get the basic idea. Mine does not look like this, mine is a universal stud remover. It hooks up with your ratchet, and the "teeth" remove the stud. Drilling the bolt should be your LAST option. Good luck.

Hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Jfsram & MoosE,
I'm hoping that it will break free but, I'm starting to have my doubts that vise grips will do the trick. I can borrow a set of bolt extractors but, I have to agree that drilling usually ends in tragedy. The last thing that I want to do is take the head off to get the bolt removed then helicoiled. I'll give the vise grips a try but, I'm going to look for the Snap-On style remover as well. May have to tell the future wife that I'll be spending Valentine's Day in the garage.......wait, what am I thinking???

Chris H.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Looks like I spoke too soon. I'm happy to say that I just got the broken bolt out using channel locks and a lot of elbow grease. Only managed to skin one knuckle in the process but, at least now I can fall asleep with piece of mind. When I got it out, it had a gummy coating on it and was thoroughy soaked with WD40. The WD40 actually did it's job...shocking. Now I just need to wait for the replacement bolts to come in. Must be my lucky day. Better play the lottery.

Chris H.
 

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Good job with the bolt. Hope the rest of your project goes well :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
OK, let me start with the good news. I got the replacemnt bolts today and reassembled everything using anti-sieze on all the bolts and hight temp RTV on all the gaskets. No problems, everything went back together pretty easily. Turned the key, it started up and idled nicely. I goosed a few times to look then I let it idle for a while to get the temperature up to top off the antifreeze and bleed the coolant. I goosed the engine a few more times and then....the bad news. It died. I tried to restart it and it would turn over and eventually fire but, wouldn't idle. I had to keep it running using the throttle. I could get it back to idle again by slowly backing off the throttle but, goose the throttle and it would just die instead of returning to idle. Now for the codes. It's throwing a 12 (battery disconnect), 17 (temperature not coming up fast enough), and then 43 twice!. Code 43 is either for a misfire or a some sort of a circuit dwell time error. I'm positive that the gasket was blown out on #6 so now I must have an electrical problem. Could this be a throttle positioning senesor? I disconnected the battery to clear the computer but, same story.

Chris H.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Uggghhh. To add insult to injury, an o-ring just let go on the #5 fuel injector. Naturally, all the parts stores are now closed so I'm dead in the water until Monday. My guess is that I should have relieved the pressure in the system before lifting the injectors out of the way. I think #5 pushed it's way up a bit without the clamping support of the retaining bar and the old o-ring just let go. It split along the circumference andf looks dry inside. Two steps forward, one step back.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Uggghhh. To add insult to injury, an o-ring just let go on the #5 fuel injector. Naturally, all the parts stores are now closed so I'm dead in the water until Monday. My guess is that I should have relieved the pressure in the system before lifting the injectors out of the way. I think #5 pushed it's way up a bit without the clamping support of the retaining bar and the old o-ring just let go. It split along the circumference andf looks dry inside. Two steps forward, one step back.
 

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Same storey here too, again!
Put it all back together and fired it up.
But mine is leaking from the O ring at the front end of the fuel rail. The tube that joins the left rail to the right rail.

After reading your post I've decide Monday I'm changing ALL the O rings, the injectors and the ones that feed the fuel rail.

BTW kissl96. Did you disconnect the battery for your gasket job?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
jfsram,
Misery loves company. I left the battery hooked up during the whole job. I just took the hood light out to keep from draining it. I figured that I wouldn't be tempted to start the thing with the intake plenum laying upside down partially on the left fender. I was also thinking about replacing all the injector o-rings. I'll see if the o-rings come in a complete kit or by the piece to make my decision. According to NAPAonline.com, it looks like they come in a kit but, there's no picture or detailed description other than the $25 price tag. Do you have any guesses on my "new" idle problem? Right now I'm thinking that the injector leak and the idle condition are seperate issues. How many miles are on your engine? Mine's at just over 100k miles and the intake runners have a good coating of oil on them. Tired engine's got some blow-by. Good luck with your injector rebuild.

CH
 

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The battery disconnected question was because I've experienced some cars don't run "normal" with a recent battery disconnect or a low charged battery. This doesn't seem like your problem.
Maybe it needs some time to learn how to run a newly sealed up motor.

My intake passages were oily too. I tried to clean them with throttle body spray cleaner.
We have just 112,000km (67200mile).
I wouldn't consider it an oil burner. It consumes 1 litre or quart every 5000km (3000miles). I never add oil it's full after an oil change and at add at 5000km later when I change it.
I've seen lots of multi port injected motors with build up in the intake. Notice it's clean under the injector.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Good News! After finally digging out of the snow on Tuesday, I made it over to the delaership to pick up my new injector o-rings and put the intake back together. Started it up and no more leaks but, still the check engine light. Feeling just about defeated, I decided to diconnect the battery one more time to see if it would clear. This time I left it disconected for about 10 minutes while I went back to shovelling. Came back, hooked the battery back up, expecting to see the check engine light again but, to my surprise, no light. I checked for any codes and the only one I got was for the battery disconnect. I let the engine warm up for a few minutes then took it for a ride. No problems, idles great and runs like a champ. Thank God! Also, many thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and good advice. On a side note, the dealer had 22 of the injector o-ring kits in stock and said that it was a common problem.

Chris H.
 

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Congrats kissle96! I know how good it feels to finally pull through an ordeal like that. Patience and perserverence pays off!

It takes extra motivation to wrench outside in the cold. I was griping about the overhead skies and temps in the '30s last weekend as I worked on my truck. I couldn't imagine doing this in the colder weather up North.
 

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Parts for Intake gasket job on a first generation 3.5L.
The front and rearmost (intake to cylinder head) bolts are often seized.
While everything is all apart I recommend replacing all the fuel system O
rings, EGR valve, spark plugs,
spark plug wires, thermostat, coolant bypass hose and any brittle vacuum
lines.
I listed all the parts in Canadian dollars, some at my cost from the dealer.

quantity description list net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 thermostat 11.45 9.75
optional
1 thermostat gasket 2.00 1.70
1 throttle body cleaner 9.95 4.35
optional
1 upper plenum gasket 4.15 3.35
2 lower plenum gaskets 15.10 24.20
2 upper egr tube gaskets 3.85 6.20
1 lower egr tube gasket 3.30 2.65 might
come w egr assembly
1 egr valve assembly 97.05 77.65
optional
2 fuel rail gaskets

After completing the intake gasket job I found an O ring leak between the
fuel rail to the crossover tube.
Since the O rings were not in stock. I had to purchase a fuel rail recall
kit which included the upgrade for
the fuel rail, gaskets and the O rings for the ends of the fuel rail.

1 fuel rail recall kit 45.75 36.60

I had to purchase the injector O rings from another dealer and they charged
me list price.

1 fuel injector O ring package 19.10 19.10
 
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