DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2001 Dodge Intrepid SE. It originally had a 2.7 L in it. The place which I bought it from put a 3.2 L engine in it. I have the paperwork of purchase and engine change, but they never recorded the new VIN from the engine ! Ugh !

Where do I look to find the VIN on the engine ? Are the engine bracket locations the same for a 2.7 L as a 3.2 L ? Would they have had to swap out or have made alterations to the "A" frame to allow the switch from the 2.7 to 3.2 ?

I have a lot of issues locating the correct parts for the engine - due to not being able to list the proper year of the engine or sub-model letters.

Did Dodge not make a 3.2 L Intrepid in 2001 ? Did the Intrepid SE model not have a 3.2 ?

Is there simply a correct model lettering I can add to a part look up scenario which would correctly reflect my 2001 has a 3.2 in it ? Any help would be much appreciated. Feeling frustrated.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
Vehicle model designation: SE => 2.7, ES => 3.2
(though there were some ESs with 2.7 from the factory)

Engine VIN location and VIN decode from FSM:

41820


41821



Engine VIN location and VIN decode from Parts PDF:

41822


41823
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
No A-frame mods between engines. 2.7 vs. 3.2/3.5 engine mount locations are same. Passenger-side mounts are the same, driver-side mounts are different. Transmission mount is same-same.

FYI, the only long block parts differences between 3.2 and 3.5 engines are different block bore, different head gaskets and pistons/rings, and different cams (different grind).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
The 2.7 transmission transfer chain gear set has higher ratio than chain gear set for 3.2 from factory, so changing engine to 3.5 without changing transfer gear set gives you greater acceleration (higher engine rpm for same road speed) than factory 3.2 setup (and probably lower mpg). Or maybe they changed out the transfer gear set - and PCM to give correct odo/speedo readings. If your 3.2 is HO (High Output - i.e., has MTV and SRV valves), would have needed PCM swap for those to operate.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
The lengths of passenger side exhaust (catalytic converter and down pipe) between manifold and resonator for 2.7 and 3.2 are a couple inches difference in lengths, so they would have either had to change out some of those 2.7 exhaust pieces with ones for 3.2 or add in a couple inches extension. Depending in how they did that, the connections may or may not be tight and leak-free. If it sounds OK, probably done right. Perhaps they swapped in the 3.2 exhaust.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
2.7 vs. 3.2/3.5 engine mount locations are same, but the mount parts are different.

FYI, the only long block parts differences between 3.2 and 3.5 engines are different block bore, different head gaskets and pistons, and different cams (different grind).
Thank you again. I'm having the sub frame replaced. I want to replace all the motor mount bushings, frame bushings, etc. How would I figure out which motor mounts to get for replacement ? Just buy motor mounts for a 2001 Dodge Intrepid ES w a 3.2 L (even though I have a 2001 Dodge Intrepid SE model) ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you - thank you - thank you ! I really appreciate all the info in this thread !
Is anything in the way or obstructing the view of that plate or stamp w the VIN on it ? I do have a bendable arm lighted mirror which I could use to try to find it and see it. What do you think re actually being able to see the VIN ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
You're welcome.

Re-read my posts as I did tweak them a little since you read them.

My guess is it's crowded around the engine VIN number - I never did try to see them on my 2 Concordes. Getting a digital camera/phone and/or your mirror in where your head won't fit may save the day on that. You may or may not have to do selective parts/harness removal/shifting to get a good view. Phone cams can really help in those situations if you can get line of sight and some light in there.

Most of the parts drill downs just ask for the engine (vs. SE or ES - especially since a few ESs did come with 2.7) - so - yes - just select 3.2 (or 3.2/3.5).

For motor mounts, I think most people here recommend the hydraulic (fluid-filled) versions where the option is offered. Two motor mounts, one tranny mount.

On the cradle bushings, do NOT get the aftermarket (Dorman) kit - quality and fit are abhorrent. If still available from dealer, go that route (sometimes can find NOS (new-old stock) on ebay). Or, for the very best, check with the guy who made custom polyurethane cradle bushings for our cars to see if he still has any - his name is Johnny - will provide contact info. in next post. If the cradle bolts are too corroded, you might buy the Dorman cradle bushing set just to get the bolts and throw the bushings away. Hopefully you don't have problems getting the bolts out of the hidden frame nuts due to corrosion.

In general, there is a lot of total junk suspension bushing parts out there in afternarket. The safest and best advice on that is to get them from NAPA, and where they offer two or three price points on a given part, get the middle or top trade - which are often the OEM part.

Sometimes the tension struts are badly rusted (significantly reduced diameters under the bushings). You might be able to still find those (NAPA? Rock Auto? ebay?).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
Contact for Johnny re: poly cradle bushings: polyurethane FWD LH Mopar cradle mounts
(phone number and email listed at bottom of page)

You may have some challenges on finding good parts as this platform ages. Potential best sources: Dealers (local as well as on-line), Rock Auto (sometimes they list the actual Mopar parts), NAPA (mid- or top-grade listing on a given part), ebay (best if can find genuine OEM from dealers listing there, or non-dealers with high 90's feedback ratings on NOS parts). Absolute best for cradle bushings: Johnny.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
Something to check - dependent on where the car has lived most of its life as far as corrosion: Brake lines - specifically in the engine compartment parallel to the driver's side fender (as well as power steering fluid lines in the same tray) and the two rear lines just ahead of the driver's side rear wheel. Also - the lines at the brake line manifold/ABS module under the PDC.

You need to look for serious corrosion pitting. Again, depending on the environment your car has lived in, this either will or will not be an issue. If heavily pitted, do not ignore it. Both my Concordes ruptured one of the rear lines towards their end of life. It's an exhilarating experience to initiate a panic stop and the pedal goes to the floor - happened on both my Concordes (also a hole rusted into one power steering metal line on one of my Concordes). If you see heavy pitting, you need to do a complete vehicle brake line replacement - semi-major project. If no or only slight pitting, consider yourself blessed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Something to check - dependent on where the car has lived most of its life as far as corrosion: Brake lines - specifically in the engine compartment parallel to the driver's side fender (as well as power steering fluid lines in the same tray) and the two rear lines just ahead of the driver's side rear wheel. Also - the lines at the brake line manifold/ABS module under the PDC.

You need to look for serious corrosion pitting. Again, depending on the environment your car has lived in, this either will or will not be an issue. If heavily pitted, do not ignore it. Both my Concordes ruptured one of the rear lines towards their end of life. It's an exhilarating experience to initiate a panic stop and the pedal goes to the floor - happened on both my Concordes (also a hole rusted into one power steering metal line on one of my Concordes). If you see heavy pitting, you need to do a complete vehicle brake line replacement - semi-major project. If no or only slight pitting, consider yourself blessed.
Thank you again for all the info and details. I'll be contacting Johnny. My mechanic who is doing the subframe already had me bring my car in - to specifically check all the frame bolts for exactly what you mentioned --- and he was able to loosen all the subframe bolts nicely (and tighten back up of course). Whew !

I did already order the Dorman bushings - LOL. I'll just use the bolts like you said.

I live in western New York and that is where this car has been all its life. The winters are brutal and salt is a-plenty all over the roads thru the winters.

I'm actually having all the rear brake lines done next week. I'll check closely on the power steering lines for pitting and any other issues. I'll also check on the front brake lines. My mechanic has super high quality brake materials he's putting in.

As for the subframe installation --- I want to make sure I replace all the mounts and bushings --- when this subframe gets swapped out. If I'm going all in --- I always figure -- do it once and do it right, so no one has to mess with it again.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
Two things that may save you some lessons learned along the way:

(1) When installing new control arms, it is important not to tighten/torque-to-value the control arm frame bushing bolts until you can get the weight of the vehicle on the wheels so that the front suspension is at its normal (neutral) height, otherwise you lock in the rotational position of the bushing's inner metal sleeve with the suspension fully extended - then, when the suspension is compressed to normal height, as the control arm rotates upward to normal sitting height, the bushing rubber is twisted, and it is constantly under that stress when the car is sitting on level ground. Additionally, as the suspension is exercised up and down when traveling, the rubber is twisted even further to an extreme (when suspension is tully compressed), and the rubber will rip apart, and you'll soon be replacing the control arms again.

It is important that you do finally tighten the control arm frame bushing bolts to torque value - because if you don't get them tight enough, you will get sudden movement and audible banging of the bushing sleeve against the bolt and frame bracket while driving when torque is imposed on the control arm when changing back and forth between accelerating and braking. But the main purpose of this note is to tell you not to torque the frame bushing bolts to value until the weight of the car is on the wheels at neutral suspension height.

(2) You may not be removing and re-installing the structural collar that rigidly joins the engine and transmission as a supplement to the bell housing connection, but am including this information in case you do. The collar is part of the structural rigidity to absorb powertrain torques and other stress between engine and transmission. Make sure to observe the structural collar bolt torque sequencing procedure in the FSM because some of the collar bolts are oriented 90° from other collar bolts, and the collar needs to be allowed to slip to find its neutral position against the engine and transmission surfaces before final torqueing so you don't lock in stresses - much of which will be forced into the brittle cast aluminum oil pan, possibly causing the pan to crack under the dynamics of spirited powertrain operation.

Hopefully you have the 2001 FSM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Two things that may save you some lessons learned along the way:

(1) When installing new control arms, it is important not to tighten/torque-to-value the control arm frame bushing bolts until you can get the weight of the vehicle on the wheels so that the front suspension is at its normal (neutral) height, otherwise you lock in the rotational position of the bushing's inner metal sleeve with the suspension fully extended - then, when the suspension is compressed to normal height, as the control arm rotates upward to normal sitting height, the bushing rubber is twisted, and it is constantly under that stress when the car is sitting on level ground. Additionally, as the suspension is exercised up and down when traveling, the rubber is twisted even further to an extreme (when suspension is tully compressed), and the rubber will rip apart, and you'll soon be replacing the control arms again.

It is important that you do finally tighten the control arm frame bushing bolts to torque value - because if you don't get them tight enough, you will get sudden movement and audible banging of the bushing sleeve against the bolt and frame bracket while driving when torque is imposed on the control arm when changing back and forth between accelerating and braking. But the main purpose of this note is to tell you not to torque the frame bushing bolts to value until the weight of the car is on the wheels at neutral suspension height.

(2) You may not be removing and re-installing the structural collar that rigidly joins the engine and transmission as a supplement to the bell housing connection, but am including this information in case you do. The collar is part of the structural rigidity to absorb powertrain torques and other stress between engine and transmission. Make sure to observe the structural collar bolt torque sequencing procedure in the FSM because some of the collar bolts are oriented 90° from other collar bolts, and the collar needs to be allowed to slip to find its neutral position against the engine and transmission before final torqueing so you don't lock in stresses - much of which will be forced into the brittle cast aluminum oil pan, possibly causing the pan to crack under the dynamics of spirited powertrain operation.

Hopefully you have the 2001 FSM.
Thank you for this further detailed info ! What is the FSM ?

What you've typed above in this last write up -- my mechanic should be able to easily understand all this. What do you think ?

I'm learning things as our conversation is moving along and some of it is just tad over my head, but I will certainly pass it along to the guy who will be working on my car.

Thank you so much.

PS: I'm a stickler for details. So, I appreciate all of this info.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
FSM = factory service manual

Your mechanic should understand. Some torques you can just use what's called "mechanics feel". Others are more critical and have a narrower tolerance band and need to be torqued to a spec. and in a certain order for sometimes not-so-obvious reasons. Those two parts are examples of those.

Another one that needs to be torqued to spec. is the control arm ball joint stud-to-steering knuckle clamping bolt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hello again Peva. I was looking through my emails and could not locate the FSM link which you sent me. Could you be so kind as to send it to me again, please ? Thank you in advance. I could track it down but on the screen I'm looking at - the dates of our messages are not showing. It just shows 5 mos ago. Still searching in emails for it. Please send again when you get a chance.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,489 Posts
Hello again Peva. I was looking through my emails and could not locate the FSM link which you sent me. Could you be so kind as to send it to me again, please ? Thank you in advance. I could track it down but on the screen I'm looking at - the dates of our messages are not showing. It just shows 5 mos ago. Still searching in emails for it. Please send again when you get a chance.
I'll do that in the next couple of days. If you haven't heard from me by Monday, it just means I forgot and not that I'm blowing you off - so ping me again if I haven't sent it by Monday.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top