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Discussion Starter #1
I'm getting ready to replace my water pump and discovered that the PCV hose on my 2002 Intrepid (2.7 engine) is missing! I've owned the car for a couple of years. Naturally, I'll replace it, but where is the non-valve end of the hose supposed to connect to the engine?

The photo in the excellent writeup in this forum on 2.7 water pump replacement -- https://www.dodgeintrepid.net/18-general-discussion-second-generation/246001-2-7-water-pump-replacement-procedure.html -- appears to show the hose pointing toward the back of the engine, but looking from the top doesn't show anything obvious to connect to.

I'm planning to replace the water pump & related because I was losing coolant (no heat!) and discovered a sludged-up oil cover. Fortunately, it's probably only been that way a few weeks. So, some questions:

--I know the recommendation is to get a real Mopar replacement, but I also noted that Rock Auto sells an aftermarket version that comes w/ two gaskets -- the old ring-style one and a new flat one. Is that pump likely to be any good?
--I'm also planning on changing the thermostat and gasket and the coolant air bleeder, which has been leaking slightly.
--As a precaution, should I replace the thermostat housing?
--Is it worth replacing the main coolant hoses? The car has about 105,000 miles.
--Anything else while I'm having fun taking apart half the engine?

After I've got all the work done, my plan was to get a quart of engine flush, add to crankcase and idle engine per directions, then drain oil and replace w/ new oil and filter. Should this be sufficient?

As usual, thanks for any help.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
... and where to get the missing hose?

Also, I'm having a hard time finding a replacement hose. Nothing on eBay (though there's one listed for the 3.2 engine), and a Dodge OEM supplier lists part #4663792AF or #4663792AH for around $120, which seems a tad excessive. The catalog shows the hose for the 2.7 at the right of the image below.

 

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The reason the 2.7 PCV hose is $120 is that it comes with a metal heat exchanger. The entire part consists of the heat exchanger with rubber hose coming off of both ends. The heat exchanger is not shown on the item 2 in the parts diagram you posted. The heat exchanger was added sometime around the 2000 model year, and Chrysler never bothered to update the sketch to accurately show the PCV hose with the heat exchanger.

So, unless someone ripped off your heat exchanger, you should have one hose from the rear of the driver’s side valve cover to the heat exchanger, and another hose from the other end of the heat exchanger to the PCV screwed into the plenum.

The heat exchanger is a metal cylinder approx. 1-1/2” in diameter and 4” long. It has a port on each end for the PCV hoses in line with the axis of the cylinder. There are also two smaller ports coming off the OD of the heat exchanger for small (guessing 10mm ID or thereabouts) coolant hoses.

Here’s what the heat exchanger looks like - this is what you’d get for your $120 (copying this photo posted by someone else):



If you have the heat exchanger, you can order just the PCV hose for the 3.2/3.5 and cut into 3 segments - throwing away the middle segment, and using the two ends with bends to make the two connections to the PCV valve and the valve cover. Costs less than $15, so you’d save over $100.

Here’s what the 3.2/3.5 hoses that you can cut up and use on the 2.7 with heat exchanger look like - two hoses shown - you only need one (this photo was originally posted by Ronbo):



If your heat exchanger is missing, you’ll need the 2.7 part with heat exchanger.
 

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My guess is that that pump with the two types of gaskets means that that supplier buys both types of pumps from different sources and you’ll get whichever pump and gasket they happen to have bought last. For one thing, the two types of gaskets are different thicknesses and the pump body has to be of a thickness to match the thickness of the gasket it’s mating with. The pump mates with the engine block, and the timing cover mates with the front of the pump *and* the timing cover seals against the block and the heads. If the total pump and gasket thickness is off by a few thousandths, the timing cover will be warped totally and permanently out of shape when you bolt everything up, and will never again seal properly, and you’ll leak oil like crazy. So that’s how I know they will not ship both types of gasket with one pump.

Trust me on this: Only get the pump and gasket from a dealer. Otherwise it’s a roll of the dice, and the dice are loaded.
 

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Tying up all the loose ends:

• I drew a red line, below, showing where the upstream end of the PCV hose plugs into the valve cover - again, the sketch does not show the heat exchanger that is in place of the middle span of the hose shown:


• It wouldn’t be a bad idea to replace the thermostat housing if it’s not too expensive - a little extra insurance against leaks that might prevent you from having to do all that work over again.

• On the bleeder, this is another part where I strongly suggest *not* going aftermarket. Aftermarket only has the old inferior design part with the bleeder molded into the top of the plastic housing - the main point of failure on this part. And the quality is not as good as the original OEM part, so it doesn’t last more than a few months. Get the OEM set that comes with the metal pipe - the bleeder is actually welded to the metal pipe instead of being molded into the plastic housing. Depending on when yours was made, it might already have the bleeder welded into the pipe - but since yours is failing, I’m guessing not. If it’s leaking now, it won’t be long before it pops loose, suddenly dumping all your coolant and risking severe overheating.

Look for the genuine OEM bleeder/metal pipe set on eBay to save a little money.

• On replacing the water hoses, if they’ve never been replaced, they’re 17+ years old - they’re due. I recommend replacing the heater hoses with silicone hose - NAPA has it - I think they cut it by the foot. It’s pretty expensive though - a few years ago it was steadily approaching $15 a foot, so the cost may be prohibitive by now. I think you can do the whole car with maybe 6 or 7 feet. But the stuff lasts forever. Don’t forget to use it for that short piece that connects the metal coolant pipe to the thermostat housing.

• Reuse the factory hose clamps - they’re the best type. They’re spring loaded to apply constant, even pressure all around the hose for perfect seal. The common screw-type clamps don’t keep constant pressure as the hoses take a compression set, and they can tear up a nice soft silicone hose. Just get a good tool for the factory type of clamp to remove and install them.

• Not sure about the crankcase flush. What if there’s lots of sludge that starts breaking loose all at once? It just depends on how bad the accumulation is. It would probably be OK, but it’s a risk.

• Radiator and coolant reservoir are common failure points at the age of these cars if they haven’t already been replaced. The plastic side tanks of the radiator start seeping and then suddenly split open under pressure. The reservoir is another part that should be OEM only - aftermarket ones are not made of good materials and rupture after a few months. Again, ebay often has some savings on the OEM part.

• Speaking of the metal coolant pipe that connects to the thermostat housing, inspect it for heavy corrosion pitting - they are known for sprouting leaks when they are this old.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
great parts advice, but still confused about hose

First, thanks for the advice in the previous posts re buying OEM parts -- I confess that I'm one of those people who usually gets the cheapest part available, and rarely gets get burned, but you make very good arguments in this case.

Re the PCV valve hose: Well, I checked, and I DO have all that stuff installed -- various hoses, hose heater, etc. So all is good there.

But what I THOUGHT was the PCV valve on the top rear of the intake manifold (the "orange" gizmo in the attached photo) is what's missing a hose on my engine.

So, 1) What is this orange valve if it's not the PCV valve? and 2) what replacement hose do I need, and what does it connect to? (BTW, Rock Auto lists two PCV valves for this application -- the one that I thought I was missing, and the "orange" one.)
 

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Woober Goobers!
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Here's a 2.7 with the PCV heat exchanger system.




And here's one without the heat exchanger:

 

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The orange color you see is the thread sealing paint that Chrysler puts on their PCV valves, as also seen in Ron's photos - so you're seeing the PCV valve there with the source hose plugged in to the right side of the hex, and the left end of the valve screwed into the intake plenum.

Don't screw the new valve in too tight or you'll ruin (crack) the plenum.
 

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I think that Fram valve that Rock Auto shows is mis-identified, unless there was some weirdness on the 2002 that I'm not aware of - perhaps a one-year thing on the crankcase vent hose on the passenger side going to the intake tube.

EDIT: Not shown in the 2000 Chrysler parts pdf, so I think the Fram applications listings are wrong - but I could be wrong.


Mystery valve:
 

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The PCV valve that's in the 2.7 should look just like the ones in the 3.2/3.5
 

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Discussion Starter #11
The weirdness continues

OK, here's the current state of affairs (2002 Intrepid, 2.7 engine, in case anyone isn't starting from the beginning of this thread):

--My engine has what appears to be a complete, properly plumbed, PCV valve & related hoses, fittings, etc., including the hose heater (see first photo). The hose eventually connects to the side of the valve cover, per design.

--However, there is also a second PCV valve at the top of the engine connected to ... nothing (see photos).

--The layout somewhat resembles the alternate design posted by Peva (pic also shown here), with a fat tube running from the "orange" PCV valve to the side of the valve cover.

So I'm wondering if for unknown reasons, I've got the intake plenum from a different year attached to my 2.7. Any other possible explanation? And assuming that's the case, what should I do about the "surplus" PCV valve? Should I just seal it up w/ epoxy to ensure there's no vacuum leak?

Thanks again!
 

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I see only one PCV valve in those first 3 photos in your last post (I see no PCV valve in the 1st photo). Is there even a hose on the downstream end of your heat exchanger? Looks to me like you need a hose between the downstream end of the heat exchanger to the exposed end of the PCV valve in the 2nd and 3rd photos. (The 4th photo was posted by Ronbo, not by me. That's a 2.7, but I don't think it's from an LH car - not an LH valve cover. Not that either of those things matter.)
 

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So the PCV valve photo in post no. 6 (with the hose attached) is the same PCV valve in the 2nd and 3rd photos of your last post, but with the hose removed - right? I'm only seeing one PCV valve in your photos of your engine. You're going to have to show both PCV valves in one photo to convince me. One of us is confused.
 

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This is what Peva is talking about above. In the picture the hose at the end of #2 in the picture is supposed to connect directly to the PCV valve on the back of the upper plenum (end of #1 in picture). I'm assuming it's missing on yours, not connected to anything or connected to the wrong place!

 

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This is what Peva is talking about above. In the picture the hose at the end of #2 in the picture is supposed to connect directly to the PCV valve on the back of the upper plenum (end of #1 in picture). I'm assuming it's missing on yours, not connected to anything or connected to the wrong place!

That sketch (obviously taken from Chrysler literature) just made me check. it looks like I was wrong when I stated earlier that Chrysler never updated the sketch to show the heat exchanger. I just checked, and the 2004 parts pdf does show it, but 2003 and earlier do not, even though it was put into production around 2000 model year.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Mystery solved!

Well, once again, Peva & Co. save the day. And once again, I feel like an *&%!*(&%! idiot.

Went out and took a closer look (again) at what I thought was a hose leading to a (hitherto unknown) PCV valve location But this time, I discovered that it is in fact the PVC hose to the "orange" PCV valve, with the end stuck underneath the plenum.

And I know exactly how I did it -- more than a year ago. Was replacing tie rod ends and the plenum has to come out. So when I put it back, somehow I forgot to re-install the PVC hose. And I didn't notice, until now, because it wasn't flapping around somewhere -- it appeared to be firmly attached.

So now, in theory, all I have to do is loosen the plenum (itself, another pain in the butt, requiring removal of half the air intake system to the throttle body), release the hose, and it should be done. However, I'm in such a foul mood now that I'll wait until morning, so I don't get even more ^(@%$!# off and do something even more stupid (like rip the hose in half while I'm trying to extract it.)

Also, I discovered while starting to loosen the plenum that one of the bolts was only finger tight. So that, and the missing PCV hose, might also explain why the Intrepid keeps throwing vague codes. :hee:

In my next life, I plan to be smarter and richer, so I don't have to dick around w/ 20-year-old cars. (Actually, in a lifetime of shade-tree mechanic-ing, I've usually enjoyed this stuff, but maybe I'm getting too old for it and should take up stamp collecting, or whatever.)

And finally (at least for this thread, I hope), thanks to everyone for the suggestions!
 

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And here's one as you would receive it from Chrysler:




PCV connection at top right. Driver side valve cover connection at bottom center. Two coolant hose connections on the barrel of the heat exchanger itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OK, one more question

Re the bleeder assembly for the cooling system, referenced earlier in the thread: Mine appears to be the improved design (at least the nipple appears to be attached to a metal band, not screwed into plastic), and I don't think it's cracked. So it looks like it's simply leaking around the gasket.

Usually, I would simply overtighten the (rusty) mounting bolts, snapping them off at the block, requiring drilling, EZ-outs and swearing to get them out. So I thought I'd try something different. Will adding a thin layer of RTV probably fix my leak, or do I need to buy a crap-quality part just to get a replacement gasket?
 

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The new design has the bleed nipple mounted directly on the metal coolant outlet pipe. Not on the plastic housing anywhere.
 
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