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Discussion Starter #1
My '96 'trep just ticked over the 96k mile mark, and one morning last week I started it up before work and hear this .. knock knock knock sound for about a second and then it went away.. (when the oil pressure went up). first I thought it could have been a lifter like so many cars sound like, but mine can be heard at some specific RPM's.. like... 2600 RPM. HWY speeds. :| anyone else have experiance with this? how much it costs to fix?
 

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Hi Lafrad,

There is a TSB out for this for my 94 Concorde, I dont know if they fixed this since because of the dates on the TSB and the year of your car, anyway I put
the TSB on my site so you can judge for
yourself.

Go

here

My car suffers the same to, I put it down to Injectors, but its getting worse :( So its highly unlikely its that now :(
 

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Another TSB I have found which may bare some relivance.

Go here

Hope it helps.

Si
 

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Discussion Starter #4
ohhhhh if it could just be the carbon buildup..... Thanks for the advice!
Gonna goto the parts store tomorrow and get some oil and stuff... and injector cleaner...
ohh.. please please please... :)

and BTW... what oil do you run?
with my 96K miles, would it be a good idea to go synthetic or a blend? I want to go to that because of my location, (northern wisconsin) and synthetic does a much better job in the winter..... any luck? any trageties?
 

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I run synthetic, I have 97k on my 3.3 Concorde, live in Michigan and all :)
 

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Lafrad,

Does this knocking occur during startup, then goes away, only to return when the engine is hot? or does it happen constantly? or only while cold?

How deep in pitch is the knocking sound. Main bearings will be a very low pitch sound, lifters will be higher in pitch. The sound associated with carbon build up is detailed in the TSB that Si posted.

You need to have your car diagnosed to find out exactly what the problem is. I am in the process of removing the engine to fix my main bearings at the moment, it isnt easy, and will be costly if you can't do it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
well.. I have had a '85 pontiac 6000 that had a bad rod bearing.... I kinda know what that sounds like... my dads chevy van with the big 350 in it has always had a clattery main bearing has been going for 85K with the little rattle on startup. and my last car, an '87 olds with a 3.0 has had a noisy lifter in the winter for years and years.
the noise sounds most like the main bearing on the chevy, but it doesn't do it all the same. it is ALWAYS there. on startup sometimes it is more prominent that other times, but I can hear it throughout the range. I know specificly that I can replace the main and rod bearings without yankin the engine, I have helped my dad do it to his chevy, and helped by brother do it to his Jimmy and Blazer. also, the Haynes manual says I can do it too. ah well, the joys of owning an automobile. :rolleyes:
 

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Are you saying that you would replace the bearings without grinding the crank. To remove the crank you have to pull the engine from the car, there just aint no way to do it with the engine in the car.

Did you replace bearings on those other two cars, without grinding the crank? If so, how long did they last?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
in the chevy van, we got a completly new beefd up crank, (easy to do, the chevy 350 engine comes for a dime a dozen) but somehow it only lasted for about 6000 miles. Something about the engine block. the Jimmy and the blazer (all GM vehicles) both were done without a grind of the crank. after we replaced the main bearings on the jimmy, the front rod bearing went 10K and all hell broke loose... what can you expect from an engine with 210K on it. :) the main was replaced on the blazer at 140K and it was going strong at 185K when My bro got rid of it. he felt a 1990 cougar was better for the gas mileage. who knows.
anyway, it seems to have subsided a bit, I filled up with NON-FORMULATED premium gas and put a bottle of STP fuel system treatment in, can't really hear it at idle, but still in the higer RPM's. I Just got an engine super lubracant (forgot the name, and am at work, so i can't look up the name) and some Quaker State fully synthetic 10w30. If I can get the noise to go away, then I can kinda push the whole thing to the back of my mind until I am out of school and can afford to just do an engine overhaul. Looking forward to goin .040 oversize with a new valve-job.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
also, on pulling the crank for the engine, we could get the crank out on all of those vehicles with the engine in the car, and the haynes manual says that even pistions and stuff can be replaces with the engine int he car? doesnt' that involve pulling the crank?
 

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The haynes manual for the trep, shows how to change pistons from the top.

I say that its not possible to change the crank on an LH car with the engine in the vehicle for 2 reasons.

Firstly that huge sub frame is in the way, and secondly the driveplate that connects the engine to the torque convertor has to be removed.

This can only be done once the engine has been separated from the tranny. The whole process seems to be much easier if the engine is removed from the car.

If you know any secrets that I am overlooking here, I would like to hear them. It would be great if I could do this with the engine in the car, but I just dont see it.

Your experiences with the other vehicles sound varied. If I could guarantee 40K out of it I would replace the bearings only, but it seems that everyone I have spoken to says about the same thing you did, it may last a long time, or it may last 5 minutes. Therefore I am doing the crank too.

Keep us posted on yours, mine has mileage close to yours, so it is interesting to see what other people are going through.

[ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: NCBrit ]
 

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Discussion Starter #12
yea, I forgot about the whole tranny/driveplate thing. on the trucks that I worked on it was all easy: car on jackstands, block under tranny, unbolt, and go. ok, well, I will let ya know after the oil change and a couple tanks of gas.
also, you got the oil pan off yers?

just for the sake of it, try lookin at the bearings, see if there are any scuffs/gouges or anything out of the ordinary. also, take a micrometer and measure the dimensions of of the crank, see if it is out of round. if it seems good in all directions and the metal is pretty clean, I would say just new bearings would be just fine. That is what was the case with the blazer, and it turned out just fine.

[ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: Lafrad ]

[ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: Lafrad ]
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
well, changed the oil. went from 5.5 qts of penzoil 10w30 (regular) to 4 qts of Quaker State fully synthetic 10w30, .5 qt of quaker State high miles 10w30, and 1 qt of Hy-Per Lube oil supplement (supposed to decrease friction and quiet noisy engines).
replaced the filter with a fram Double Guard. all quality stuff. I start the car up, and hear the "tap tap tap tap..." that ran with the RMP of the engine, and when Oil pressure built up, it quieted down substansially. I let the car idle.. get the different fluids all mixed up. so after 5 miles of driving, I can't hear the tapping anymore at idle or at any Rpm up to about 5000 rpm. SO, now I am thinking it probably is a rod bearing, because of the distinct sound of it going to the RPM of the engine, not more clatterey like the main bearing sound of the Chevy my dad had to replace. so I will have to see about fixing that somehow. :(
first, I will take it to a garage and see what they think. if It will be alright for awhile longer or not......

thanks everyone for your input, and I hope this convinces every to change their oil at least every 3000 miles or less, with quality stuff!

[ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: Lafrad ]
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hey NCBrit.. what ever happend with the bearing situation? how's yer car doing? what did you end up doing? I really got a lemon of an engine I think.. I am kickin myself here. I never did anything with the bearing.. and after the head-gasget thing, the mechanic musta put in some thinner oil, because I can hear it again, so I put in some thicker oil and some more Hy-Per lube.. quiet again, but now I am worried, I just had all that stupid work done, and now I might have to do more. thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Oh, and Si? hows yer engine doing? still rattlin around?
 

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115K on my 3.5 and she rattles like a can of beans when it's first started up but then goes away in 1-2 seconds. For awhile I heard the definate low tone of a bottom end knock, so I switched to full synthetic Mobile 1 oil. 5w-50 weight. Still rarrles a bit when fired up, but knock is gone and she seems smoother and quieter. I was using Q-state 10-30 before. Hopefully I caught it before it became a seriously big problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
can-o-beans, huh? can I use that? who do I have to pay royalties to? :)
anyway.. that is what I did.. I passed up the 5W-50 and went to 15W-50. Quieted it down quite a bit... but I am still worried... how long you let it go on that silver? does it ever get any worse?
 

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It's almost embarrasing to admit, but I'm terrible with the maintainance on my cars. I work on them all day, mine is the last one I want to touch. I've gone 7-8,000 miles sometimes between changes (gulp) but the Mobile 1 seems to hold up quite well. I'm also using the Double Guard filter. I've been better on track with changing the oil lately, not going over 4-5,000 miles between them. The 'Trep seems to like it more too!
The noise hasn't come back since I started using the heavy weight oil, one time I heard it but I was 6500 miles over-due. Shame on me!
You may use "can-o-beans" anytime you like. You have my blessings. Send all royalties to...... Just Kidding.
 
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