Manual AC
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WOuldn't you have to install temperature sensors, too?
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I know this thread is very old. I have sort of the same problem, but in reverse. I have a 1998 Intrepid ES with the digital automatic temperature control. Like so many others, the display went out and it's not from cold solder joints or the plug-in connection. It's some kind of bad contact within the glass-encased display itself and it appears it's not serviceable.
I'm heading to the junkyard to get a replacement. But, I started thinking if I "may" be able to replace the "automatic" unit that I have with the "manual" version with the knobs. Is that possible? Are the plugins the same? Are there other things that need changed to do that? Is it too much to swap the units?
I'm getting sick and tired of all the overly-complicated electrical items that keep going bad on this car. The more "simple" things normally last longer without problems. That's why I want to consider if I can easily swap out the automatic unit for the manual unit.
I swear the next car I buy is going to be as bare-bones as I can get: manual crank windows, simple heat/ac, no cruise control, no anti-lock brakes, etc.
I'm heading to the junkyard to get a replacement. But, I started thinking if I "may" be able to replace the "automatic" unit that I have with the "manual" version with the knobs. Is that possible? Are the plugins the same? Are there other things that need changed to do that? Is it too much to swap the units?
I'm getting sick and tired of all the overly-complicated electrical items that keep going bad on this car. The more "simple" things normally last longer without problems. That's why I want to consider if I can easily swap out the automatic unit for the manual unit.
I swear the next car I buy is going to be as bare-bones as I can get: manual crank windows, simple heat/ac, no cruise control, no anti-lock brakes, etc.
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You would have to make changes to the harness under the dash - either do some splicing or replace the entire harness, and replace the module that controls the blower motor speed. My guess is that it would be more trouble than you want to go thru.
Also - when you say you think there is a problem in the display, is it due to a large discolored area near one end of the back side of the display? If so, they all have that (at least one photo has been posted of it, but it would probably take a while to search and find it). If that's the case, do you think it is possible that you do in fact have some bad solder joints?
I hear you on the over-complexity of cars these days. But, between the government legislation and consumer demands, the manufacturers have been forced into cramming the proverbial 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag.
Also - when you say you think there is a problem in the display, is it due to a large discolored area near one end of the back side of the display? If so, they all have that (at least one photo has been posted of it, but it would probably take a while to search and find it). If that's the case, do you think it is possible that you do in fact have some bad solder joints?
I hear you on the over-complexity of cars these days. But, between the government legislation and consumer demands, the manufacturers have been forced into cramming the proverbial 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag.
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146 Posts
Hey Peva how's it going. Yes, sort of figured it would be a lot of work.
No, the entire display is out. If I "flick" the "glass-encapsulated" display itself, sometimes I can get it to light for a moment or two. I also saw that "burn" spot on the glass at the one end. It did concern me at first, but I found quite a few posts talking about it so I figured it wasn't that big of a deal. I put on my geeky head magnifiers and re-soldered all of the surface mount resistors and the prongs for the power plug-in and the voltage rectifier. Didn't make any difference.
The best I can conclude is that "something" inside the glass case isn't making contact 100% of the time. When I "flick" it I get contact once in a while for a few seconds.
The reason I was wondering about changing over to the MTC is because I went to multiple junkyards today, and there were NO ATC displays to be found. Most of the Treps, Concords, Sebrings, had MTC controls. Any car that had ATC controls had been stripped of it. I'm going to go back out tomorrow if it's not pouring down rain and check out a few other boneyards. I'm not holding my breath, though. Seems to be a hugely popular item. Seems to me that if all these displays keep going bad why getting another one from a junkyard would be any better???
All I know is I have no heat or ac and I had to pop out the 30amp fuse to shut down the high blower speed. It was roasting me out of the car! Gotta get it fixed.
No, the entire display is out. If I "flick" the "glass-encapsulated" display itself, sometimes I can get it to light for a moment or two. I also saw that "burn" spot on the glass at the one end. It did concern me at first, but I found quite a few posts talking about it so I figured it wasn't that big of a deal. I put on my geeky head magnifiers and re-soldered all of the surface mount resistors and the prongs for the power plug-in and the voltage rectifier. Didn't make any difference.
The best I can conclude is that "something" inside the glass case isn't making contact 100% of the time. When I "flick" it I get contact once in a while for a few seconds.
The reason I was wondering about changing over to the MTC is because I went to multiple junkyards today, and there were NO ATC displays to be found. Most of the Treps, Concords, Sebrings, had MTC controls. Any car that had ATC controls had been stripped of it. I'm going to go back out tomorrow if it's not pouring down rain and check out a few other boneyards. I'm not holding my breath, though. Seems to be a hugely popular item. Seems to me that if all these displays keep going bad why getting another one from a junkyard would be any better???
All I know is I have no heat or ac and I had to pop out the 30amp fuse to shut down the high blower speed. It was roasting me out of the car! Gotta get it fixed.
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20,517 Posts
did you do these resistors?
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=79995
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=166767
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=79995
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=166767
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146 Posts
Yeah, I re-soldered R14, R20, and R21. I hooked it back up after re-soldering those resistors and the rectifier and the plug-in receptacle and still didn't get the display to light up. Then, again, as I have done before, I "flicked" the display with my finger and it lit up for a few seconds and then went out again.
I have another problem now, though, on my ATC display. While having it hooked back up in the car, and "moving" and "wiggling" components and wires around looking for a bad connection, I accidentally broke off the Capacitor at C16. That is a capacitor, is it not?
There are no more electronic supply stores around my area, so I have no idea where I would get a replacement other than through Mouser or Digikey and that means $7.00 shipping for a $0.25 cent capacitor.
Does anyone know what size capacitor that is at C16? All it says on it is "47" and "CFC" and "7L3". I figure the "47" is 47 uF? Is that right? I have no idea what 7L3 means. I Googled all those numbers for specifications and came up with zilch. To even think about ordering one, I need to know the exact specifications including capacitance and voltage. Not that I'm crazy about ordering one from Mouser. Do I have to put another surface mount capacitor on the board? Can I use another style? That may open up more options. Another thing bothering me is that "backwards "1Q" right below C16 on the board. What does the backwards "1Q" mean?
Short of finding another capacitor, I'm going to hit up a few more junkyards and hope to find another display.
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146 Posts
Another thought: Is there a circuit diagram floating around anywhere for the ATC display?
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Should be a capacitor - that's always what a 'C' designator means in my 25+ years of circuit design experience, plus the value of 47 (with unknown power of 10) is a typical capacitor value.
If I had to guess, an aluminum or tantalum - but only a guess. If so, probably is 47uF. But that's guessing on my part.
Certainly not. But without knowing the specs., it's a gamble.
Huh! Never noticed that before. My guess is that whoever did the p.c. board layout put that Q1 on the wrong side of the board - it likely is intended to identify the device on the other side of the board that owns the three leads you see (no doubt a transistor).
Assuming yours has a problem other than a bad solder joint, yours is a very odd duck. The display not working is *always* a bad solder joint - yours being the only exception I've seen or read about. Life's too short - find another unit, or buy one from someone here selling one - even if it needs to be re-soldered, that would be the way to go.
Pretty sure no.
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146 Posts
Thanks for all the replies, Peva.
I looked far and wide at all the boneyards and came up with nothing. 99.9% of the Intrepids that had an MTC display still had them in the cars. 100% of the Treps that had ATC displays had them already taken from the cars. Very discouraging.
So, last night I decided to head up to my neighborhood Radio Shack and see if they had a 47uF capacitor to replace the one I accidentally broke off the PCB board. It's just a little can-type, aluminum electrolytic. They had one, but it was the "radial" style. The diameter was about the same, but it was about 3 times taller than the SMD type I broke off. $1.49 +tax. Probably $0.33 from Mouser but more $$$ to ship it. No big deal. Nothing to lose so I bought it. Wasn't sure the increased "tallness" of the new capacitor would "clear" the plastic cover when I put that back on.
Went home and soldered it on the board. I put the leads of the new capacitor through the small, plastic base that was part of the old SMD cap I broke off. Soldered it in. Went out to the garage, plugged the ATC back in and turned the key on. Display lit right up. Pressed all of the buttons and all seemed to be working EXCEPT I didn't have a blower. Then I remembered I had removed the 30amp fuse to shut down the unbearable heat from the heater blowing full blast without the ATC hooked up. Replaced the fuse and it seems to be working. I left it on for about half an hour. I will recheck today before putting everything back together.
Yeah, the only thing I really did to the board was resolder the resistors at R14, R20, and R21. I also re-soldered the 3 prongs of the voltage regulator and the leads of the power plug-in. I could see the hairline cracks between the resistors and the solder with my 10X magnifying headset. It didn't seem like that was enough to cause all those problems, but apparently it is.
Diagrams for this kind of stuff are nice because they usually give you more specific information about the components on the board such as tolerances and voltages, etc. No big deal, though. It seems to have worked out.
The "1Q" is MORE than on the wrong side of the board. I figured out it was an identification for the voltage regulator on the other side. Look at it. The "1" is backwards and the "Q" is backwards. Like how you would see it in a mirror. At least on my board it is. Weird.
So, hopefully, this will wrap this one up. It's been acting up for quite a while. Way over a year. I could tap on the side of the dash and get it to light up and that's what I've been doing until it wouldn't light up anymore.
I have another minor electrical issue, but I'll start a new thread. First, I'll do a search and see if it has already been talked about, which it more than likely has. "Sometimes", when I pull into park the car, and I'm moving the shifter from Drive to Park, BOTH traction control lights (Traction Control ON and Traction Control OFF) will light up in the dash display for about 5 seconds and then go out. I have my foot on the brake at the same time while shifting from Drive To Park (obviously), so it seems whatever is going on is somehow related to that sequence. The display is only on for a few seconds and then goes out. It seems to be minor. I know both Traction Control ON and OFF lights shouldn't be lighting at the same time except when I first start the car and the computer runs its checks. It's a project for another day.
Thanks for all the help, Peva, and everyone else who added their input. I appreciate it. I do still stand by what I previously posted above in that the next car I buy is going to be a much more simplified vehicle without all the bells and whistles. Hand crank windows, manual heater controls, no power seats (I have set my seat one time since buying the car and never moved it), etc. The more "crap" on a car, the more things to go wrong and the more costly it is to fix it.
Thanks again all.
I looked far and wide at all the boneyards and came up with nothing. 99.9% of the Intrepids that had an MTC display still had them in the cars. 100% of the Treps that had ATC displays had them already taken from the cars. Very discouraging.
So, last night I decided to head up to my neighborhood Radio Shack and see if they had a 47uF capacitor to replace the one I accidentally broke off the PCB board. It's just a little can-type, aluminum electrolytic. They had one, but it was the "radial" style. The diameter was about the same, but it was about 3 times taller than the SMD type I broke off. $1.49 +tax. Probably $0.33 from Mouser but more $$$ to ship it. No big deal. Nothing to lose so I bought it. Wasn't sure the increased "tallness" of the new capacitor would "clear" the plastic cover when I put that back on.
Went home and soldered it on the board. I put the leads of the new capacitor through the small, plastic base that was part of the old SMD cap I broke off. Soldered it in. Went out to the garage, plugged the ATC back in and turned the key on. Display lit right up. Pressed all of the buttons and all seemed to be working EXCEPT I didn't have a blower. Then I remembered I had removed the 30amp fuse to shut down the unbearable heat from the heater blowing full blast without the ATC hooked up. Replaced the fuse and it seems to be working. I left it on for about half an hour. I will recheck today before putting everything back together.
Yeah, the only thing I really did to the board was resolder the resistors at R14, R20, and R21. I also re-soldered the 3 prongs of the voltage regulator and the leads of the power plug-in. I could see the hairline cracks between the resistors and the solder with my 10X magnifying headset. It didn't seem like that was enough to cause all those problems, but apparently it is.
Diagrams for this kind of stuff are nice because they usually give you more specific information about the components on the board such as tolerances and voltages, etc. No big deal, though. It seems to have worked out.
The "1Q" is MORE than on the wrong side of the board. I figured out it was an identification for the voltage regulator on the other side. Look at it. The "1" is backwards and the "Q" is backwards. Like how you would see it in a mirror. At least on my board it is. Weird.
So, hopefully, this will wrap this one up. It's been acting up for quite a while. Way over a year. I could tap on the side of the dash and get it to light up and that's what I've been doing until it wouldn't light up anymore.
I have another minor electrical issue, but I'll start a new thread. First, I'll do a search and see if it has already been talked about, which it more than likely has. "Sometimes", when I pull into park the car, and I'm moving the shifter from Drive to Park, BOTH traction control lights (Traction Control ON and Traction Control OFF) will light up in the dash display for about 5 seconds and then go out. I have my foot on the brake at the same time while shifting from Drive To Park (obviously), so it seems whatever is going on is somehow related to that sequence. The display is only on for a few seconds and then goes out. It seems to be minor. I know both Traction Control ON and OFF lights shouldn't be lighting at the same time except when I first start the car and the computer runs its checks. It's a project for another day.
Thanks for all the help, Peva, and everyone else who added their input. I appreciate it. I do still stand by what I previously posted above in that the next car I buy is going to be a much more simplified vehicle without all the bells and whistles. Hand crank windows, manual heater controls, no power seats (I have set my seat one time since buying the car and never moved it), etc. The more "crap" on a car, the more things to go wrong and the more costly it is to fix it.
Thanks again all.
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You're welcome.
Yes - I'm aware it's backwards. What I was meaning to say before is that whoever did the board artwork put it on the wrong silkscreen layer (there's one on both sides of the board), so it came out mirror image. A mistake done on the computer when doing the board artwork - they just had the wrong layer turned on when they aded that designator.
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146 Posts
Ahhhhhhhh....................got it. Misunderstood your reply.
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Did you find what you needed? My local yard has 4 or 5 cars with ATC displays; I was starting to pull one from an Intrepid when I hit this site from my phone and realized there was more work than I cared for to convert; that was 3 days ago. Of course I have no way of knowing if they are operational. Let me know...
--Chris
--Chris
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Hey Celamantia, yeah I ended up fixing it. I honestly thought the problem was in the display itself, because when I flicked the display part with my finger, the display would light up. But, I guess that flicking the display itself also transferred over to the resistors that had bad connections. So, I resoldered all of the resistors and all is good. I still have the problem of the traction control "ON" and "OFF" lights in the dash display lighting up whenever I shift from "D" to "P". But, that's for another post. Thanks for responding back with your junkyard finds. I must have went to 7 or 8 boneyards in my area and there were no ATC displays in any of the cars they had. Glad mine was fixable.
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16,287 Posts
I switched mine over to an ATC head when I replaced my roof, body and dash harness with ones from an 02 Special. The MTC has 2 plugs and the ATC has 1 smaller black plug. So you would need to be creative. The blower motor resistor also has to be changed and thats a PITA. There is almost no room to maneuver under the blower housing. I dont use my climate control ever, I hate AC so I cant tell you if its worth it or not. I was forced to do it because I had to change the dash harness to run SKIM, and I needed SKIM to run my Special PCM. If you do use AC, then its a nice feature. Set your TEMP and youre good to go. And instead of 5 fan speeds like there is with MTC, theres 8 or 9 with ATC.
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