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Well, yet ANOTHER issue came up with my wifes 2000 base 2.7 She called me and said that her check engine light came on and code P0303 came up (misfire detected on cylinder #3). I read another thread about possabilities on how to correct the situation, but need info as to location of things and how to do them. I cannot find my chiltons manual so I am lost.
*Where do I look for cylinders?
*Which one is #3?
*Can somebody PLEASE post a picture?
*Where exactly does the PCV valve sit on the 2.7? If it is the peice I am thinking of, it is leaking or seeping. I know I need to replace that.
I told her to try some injector cleaner as so many people answered it might be a clogged fuel injector. I will also turn the car on and check for leaks and sniff for gas tonight after I get up.
*Where exactly are the fuel injectors?
*Can they be isolated down to a certain one in order to unglog it?
*I plan on trying SEAFOAM, but where would the best place be to try and let it work on the injectors? Gas tank????
Plugs were changed about 4 months ago so they should still be okay right?
Most important question...Is she going to be safe driving the car until I can solve the issue? Please help.
 

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silver&gold said:
*Where do I look for cylinders?
They are what the pistons sit inside of. They are part of the engine block.
*Which one is #3?
It should say on you spark plug wires.
*Can somebody PLEASE post a picture?
*Where exactly does the PCV valve sit on the 2.7?
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73265&page=2&pp=15&highlight=pvc
*Where exactly are the fuel injectors?
Feul injectors are what spray fuel into the cylinders to make combustion.
*Can they be isolated down to a certain one in order to unglog it?
Probably, but not sure how to do it.
*I plan on trying SEAFOAM, but where would the best place be to try and let it work on the injectors? Gas tank????http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm
QUOTE]
 
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spaz_boy31 said:
silver&gold said:
*Where do I look for cylinders?
They are what the pistons sit inside of. They are part of the engine block.
*Which one is #3?
It should say on you spark plug wires.
*Can somebody PLEASE post a picture?
*Where exactly does the PCV valve sit on the 2.7?
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73265&page=2&pp=15&highlight=pvc
*Where exactly are the fuel injectors?
Feul injectors are what spray fuel into the cylinders to make combustion.
*Can they be isolated down to a certain one in order to unglog it?
Probably, but not sure how to do it.
*I plan on trying SEAFOAM, but where would the best place be to try and let it work on the injectors? Gas tank????http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm
QUOTE]
That was probably the worst post I've ever seen. Half your answers are ueseless, and you link this guy to seafoam? Look in this guy's sig, he's the biggest ****in seafoam user on the site. And btw, where are our sprak plug wires, i'd like to see a picture of these...
 

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I got a first gen. I was just trying to ****ing help. Jesus christ.
 

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silver&gold said:
Well, yet ANOTHER issue came up with my wifes 2000 base 2.7 She called me and said that her check engine light came on and code P0303 came up (misfire detected on cylinder #3). I read another thread about possabilities on how to correct the situation, but need info as to location of things and how to do them. I cannot find my chiltons manual so I am lost.
*Where do I look for cylinders?
*Which one is #3?
*Can somebody PLEASE post a picture?
*Where exactly does the PCV valve sit on the 2.7? If it is the peice I am thinking of, it is leaking or seeping. I know I need to replace that.
I told her to try some injector cleaner as so many people answered it might be a clogged fuel injector. I will also turn the car on and check for leaks and sniff for gas tonight after I get up.
*Where exactly are the fuel injectors?
*Can they be isolated down to a certain one in order to unglog it?
*I plan on trying SEAFOAM, but where would the best place be to try and let it work on the injectors? Gas tank????
Plugs were changed about 4 months ago so they should still be okay right?
Most important question...Is she going to be safe driving the car until I can solve the issue? Please help.
^Cylinders are below the spark plugs( basically the plug screws into the top of the cylinder)
^#3 cylinder is the middle one on the passenger side
^PCV valve on 2.7 is screwed in to the top of the upper intake near the back,with a hose that connects it to the driver side valve cover...Probably not the cause of #3 cyl. misfire code , but never hurts to replace it..
^The fuel injectors are attached to a mounting rail and located under the upper intake plenum. They can be individually unplugged electrically to try to isolate a bad one --but this is really difficult to do with the plenum attached.. Also an injector performing bad enough to cause an individual cylinder misfire also will usually cause a slight bad idle..
^About the only way to get the Seafoam through the injectors ,without taking things apart or using other equipment will be to put it in the gas tank.,.Worth a try and it can't hurts to clean the fuel system occasionally anyway..
^Checking the condition of the #3 plug is where you need to start-- this will help you determine if the plug, coil, primary coil wire, etc is at fault.. Also will let you know if cylinder is rich or lean-maybe helping with the injector diagnosis..
^Probably not going to have any safety issues with her driving it with 1 cylinder misfireing..just wasting a little fuel $$$
ALSO might check:
Clear codes and see if it is an intermittant problem..
Pull wire off of coil with engine running, engine should miss noticably.. and then try swapping coils with another cylinder to check that coil,- code will change to another cylinder if that coil is bad..
Check for vacuum leaks aruond that cylinder's intake.

Lots of things can cause the misfire..(I think it has to misfire twice before it sets the code) i would clear the codes and if it comes back, start with taking a look at that plug, then check coil, then look for fuel issues, then vacuum leaks,compression problems,wiring faults, PCM etc.. Since the plugs and coils are so easy to get to it is a easy logical place to start..
Just my 2.7cents worth..
Good luck
 

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spaz_boy31 said:
I got a first gen. I was just trying to ****ing help. Jesus christ.
Ok...ok...don't be a spaz!! It does help to know what you're talking about before you post though. Carry on...
 

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Good post, lex. Pretty much everything I would have stated you have touched on.


Hey, silver, when's the last time the plugs ahve been changed, and how many miles are on the car?
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Hey guys, thanks for the info. I just went out to her car to do a look over.

If this is the PCV valve, then it is toast. It has a split around the most upper part of it and it is spongey. I understand about the other things, but considering I am the type of person who like to start witht he obvious, I will start there. Could the PCV be an issue? I need to find my bits in order to get the coil off to check that portion, but I figure I will start with the PCV as it seems to have an obvious defect.

Spaz...thanks anyway for the help. I aint mad at ya!
 

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Yep, that is the PCV valve.. If the hose is spongy or split then get ready to pay$$ for this hose elbow at the dealer..You will prolly have to buy the whole hose assy..If you search there are several threads on replacing the hose and/ or heat exchanger assy... Also get the PCV valve from the dealer too some changes have been made to it.. Probably not the direct cause of the MIL light for #3 cyl. misfire-- but could be an issue since it does have an effect on air/ fuel mixture for all cylinders..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Froggy....plugs were changed about 7 thousand miles ago. Is it possible to have a plug go bad and then maybe just change out the one? Car has 107,000+ on it.

I called NAPA about the PCV valve...they do not have it listed. Stealership item only I guess. Called dealer and the don't have any in stock. Saturday morning they should have one in $11.22 for the part. Gives me time to explore the other stuff.
 

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silver&gold said:
Froggy....plugs were changed about 7 thousand miles ago. Is it possible to have a plug go bad and then maybe just change out the one? Car has 107,000+ on it.

I called NAPA about the PCV valve...they do not have it listed. Stealership item only I guess. Called dealer and the don't have any in stock. Saturday morning they should have one in $11.22 for the part. Gives me time to explore the other stuff.
Quite often one plug will go bad.. if it is just change the one plug since others are not that old..And get the dealer PCV valve no substitutes!!
 

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lextrep said:
Yep, that is the PCV valve.. If the hose is spongy or split then get ready to pay$$ for this hose elbow at the dealer..You will prolly have to buy the whole hose assy..If you search there are several threads on replacing the hose and/ or heat exchanger assy... Also get the PCV valve from the dealer too some changes have been made to it.. Probably not the direct cause of the MIL light for #3 cyl. misfire-- but could be an issue since it does have an effect on air/ fuel mixture for all cylinders..
Thanks for the help lex! As bad as that hose is, I am thinking that might be a real good place to start. I turned the car on and didn't notice anything as far as it seeming to be off, wife said she drove fine as well. I dunno. I guess I will start with the PCV and go from there. Process of elimination. Thanks again.
 

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lextrep said:
Quite often one plug will go bad.. if it is just change the one plug since others are not that old..And get the dealer PCV valve no substitutes!!
Its possible for just one plug. Check that plug for any cracks or other signs of problems. Lean or rich conditions also. A cracked plug will short to ground. You can also check the spark plug boot on the end of the coil and while you're in there, check the terminal inside the boot for corrosion. By any chance has it been rainy or otherwise damn there. Silver? I had a corroded wire terminal on a caravan that acted up when it rained outside.

Good point on the dealer pcv valve, lex. The p/n is 5175350AA and i got one earlier this week. Cost me $10 and change.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah, thats where I HAVE to get the PCV valve from as NAPA says it is a dealer item only. $11.22 for it. As far as the elbow tube goes, I will see how much that is going to run me at the dealer or I might rape the junker at the local yard Saturday as well. I hope this fixes it. I will explore the other items as well. I am leary I will admit, about messing with the spark plugs etc while the car is on. It won't like shock the crap outta me will it?

I checked the wires going into the coil pack (I think thats what is was...the square on top of the plugs?) They seemed okay, no real evidence of corrosion either. Thanks again guys!
 

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A stuck OPEN PCV valve will cause excessive amounts of oil to be drawn into the engine intake, this could easily foul a spark plug. The tubing will be a ripoff, but not a bankrupter. Hey.... maybe you could get it off of the dead 2.7 Intrepid at the FM600 yard if it's still there.

Another thing to check is ignition coil output. you will need some wire and a good engine ground to check the coil. The goal is to see if you can get an arc from the terminal inside the coil tube that the plug attaches to and the engine head. It should fire when the enine is running of course.

Look at the plugs:

Shiny black = oil fouled. Find oil source, and repair, fit some new plug.
Dull sooty black = fuel mixture too rich or plug not firing at all. Can also be caused by using plugs that are too cold. Check heat range via the part number.. Replace plug.
Fluffy ash deposits on plug: oil additive deposits, find oil source and fit a new plug.
Blistered plug: cylinder temp too hot, fix cooling system and replace plug, be sure to get the correct heat range!.

For illustrations: http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/BoschSPFaces.pdf

Bosch Platinum plugs are quite notorious for fouling or otherwise malfunctioning at random intervals, usually long before they are supposed to need changing. If you have these, PLEASE do yourself a favor and replace them with Champion Double Platinum or NGK Laser Platinum (both were OEM on the LH)

Oh and yeah... check the torque on the plugs! I've seen them loosen up, this causes a miss.

If the plug smells like fuel, it's probably not the injector, but the injector could still be not putting out enough fuel or it may be leaking. I'm personally leaning toward the PCV leak or bad plug theory.
 

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silver&gold said:
Yeah, thats where I HAVE to get the PCV valve from as NAPA says it is a dealer item only. $11.22 for it. As far as the elbow tube goes, I will see how much that is going to run me at the dealer or I might rape the junker at the local yard Saturday as well. I hope this fixes it. I will explore the other items as well. I am leary I will admit, about messing with the spark plugs etc while the car is on. It won't like shock the crap outta me will it?
Napa is full of it. The pcv valve can be bought in the parts stores and Napa does stock a p/n for it. But the newer dealer part seems to be a little bit better. I don't know Napa's p/n but I did look it up online a few times before to know they do sell one. Both Fram and Purolator make a pcv valve as the one I put on 2 years ago was a purolator.

I have to eventually order a new pcv tube sooner or later. If that pic circling the pcv is of your engine, then I can see you have the heat exchanger already there. I started a thread awhile ago asking for p/n's for the pcv hose and did some research on some p/n's for it. The earlier ones are cheaper like $11 since they didn't come with the heat exchanger. And since I already have it and I don't need to change it, I want to order the cheaper one that is 2 elbows and a plastic tube connecting them. I'll just not need the plastic tubing. Try this p/n 4663792AB. Search my name and a thread titled pcv hose part number or something like that and you'll see what I posted. That p/n I just gave stays the same through the years, only the last letter changes for the different ones they offer.



silver&gold said:
I checked the wires going into the coil pack (I think thats what is was...the square on top of the plugs?) They seemed okay, no real evidence of corrosion either. Thanks again guys!
That's a good place to look and so is pulling the coil and checking the terminal up inside the boot. When I had the problem on the caravan, it was some rust on the terminal and on the top of the spark plug. Only when it got rainy out it would sometimes sputter on that cylinder. I cleaned it up with sandpaper and applied spark plug boot grease onto it and never had another issue with it.
 

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The simplest way to diagnose bad plug or coil without diagnostic equipment, if the plug doesn't show any obvious signs of damage is.... Pull the coil and plug out on cyl#3.. swap this plug with cyl #5 plug.. also swap the #3 coil with cyl #1 coil... drive normal.. if plug was bad,you will get a cyl #5 misfire.. if coil was bad you will get a cyl.#1 misfire.. if you still get only a cyl #3 misfire look for other things... Takes maybe 15 minutes, no cost and you won't get shocked by the coil output..

And hardwareguy is right.. this engine doesn't seem to like anything but the oem type plugs..
 
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