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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi Everybody,

I'm in the UK with a car made in Canada bought in France and called "Chrysler Vision". It is, of course a Dodge Intrepid, Eagle Vision or Chrysler Concorde... take your pick! She is a lovely old lady (1994) and I would hate to get rid of her.

For years, I have had a tranny problem that was intermittent and usually solved by a quick stop and restart of the engine when it occurred, but now it is systematic and getting a real pain!

After starting the engine, it will usually engage a forward gear after about 10 seconds, but no reverse and will not change gear. If I drive about 1 mile in limp mode (but no reverse), and do my stop-start-engine thingy, all is well and it usually shifts perfectly for the rest of the day. However there is an occasional "thump-engage" when accelerating from a stop, for example at traffic lights.

I have tried idling the engine until it is hot before the first use of the car in the morning and that works too. Just idling for a couple of minutes does not work.

I have changed the fluid and filter (Mopar ATF+4) and it did not cure the problem, but seemed to make it more consistent. It is now systematic and the "cure" is consistent too (but a pain!).

I have heard a lot of good about "Lucas Transmission Fix", but some people say that the 42LE (A606) tranny should never have anything other than Mopar ATF in it and would be damaged by anything else.

Any ideas? Many thanks in advance.

John
 

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First step would be to get the transmission up to operating temp, cycle it through each of the gear ranges (PRND), then put it in park (with the car on a level surface) and with the engine still running, check the fluid level and verify that it is up to the full mark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
First step would be to get the transmission up to operating temp, cycle it through each of the gear ranges (PRND), then put it in park (with the car on a level surface) and with the engine still running, check the fluid level and verify that it is up to the full mark.
Yes, the fluid level is up to, or slightly over, the "hot" full mark. Actually, I was wondering if I should overfill it a bit and see what happened.

BTW, I also changed the input speed sensor, but it made no difference. I assume the output speed sensor should be OK because my speedometer readings are fine.

Have you ever tried "Lucas Transmission Fix"?
 

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I don't think Lucas transmission additive would do anything for your issue. Fluid level would be one thing that would vary with temperature and most likely to be affected by a fluid and filter change but it appears you have already ruled that out. I have heard of people having transmission issues with first gens due to bad ignition switches, but I think that would be one heck of a long shot considering you said that forward work will work then reverse would work after a certain time period. Usually the symptoms of a faulty ignition switch would be for it to go into limp mode randomly or possibly after an approximate time interval and then have the shut off/restart get you back going.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Is "Lucas Transmission Fix" safe to try?

I don't think Lucas transmission additive would do anything for your issue. Fluid level would be one thing that would vary with temperature ...
I spoke to a transmission specialist on the phone and he said he thought the problem was most likely due to leaking seals, and thus low fluid pressure. With age, apparently, the seals get hard, and do not seal well, but when they get warm, they get more flexible and the pressure can be adequate.

That is why I thought Lucas Transmission Fix might help -- it is supposed to help leaking seals. BUT...

...I am scared to damage the transmission or make matters worse. As I said, I have heard people say to NEVER put anything other than Mopar ATF +3 or +4 in it.

Can you or anyone throw any light on the danger or otherwise of using this Lucas stuff in this transmission?

The car is unknown in the UK (never imported and no RHD version ever made) and so it is always tough to get information here. Even Chrysler UK don't know it!
 

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I spoke to a transmission specialist on the phone and he said he thought the problem was most likely due to leaking seals, and thus low fluid pressure. With age, apparently, the seals get hard, and do not seal well, but when they get warm, they get more flexible and the pressure can be adequate.

That is why I thought Lucas Transmission Fix might help -- it is supposed to help leaking seals. BUT...

...I am scared to damage the transmission or make matters worse. As I said, I have heard people say to NEVER put anything other than Mopar ATF +3 or +4 in it.

Can you or anyone throw any light on the danger or otherwise of using this Lucas stuff in this transmission?

The car is unknown in the UK (never imported and no RHD version ever made) and so it is always tough to get information here. Even Chrysler UK don't know it!

It shouldn't be unknown, Chrysler has alot of them over there. I know there is one in Russia, Sweden and Hungary!


Chances are good the Transmission needs a rebuild. However the next cheap fix is to pull the Valve body and clean the Solenoid pack. There are screens on them that can get clogged up. Beyond that its replacement time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It shouldn't be unknown, Chrysler has alot of them over there. I know there is one in Russia, Sweden and Hungary!
Never imported into the UK, and as I said "unknown" as not being in a database... I had a load of problems to insure it and finally got it insured by a "Classic car" specialist. Like that they found a pigeonhole to fit it into: "classic car" LOL :)


Chances are good the Transmission needs a rebuild. However the next cheap fix is to pull the Valve body and clean the Solenoid pack.
That would not solve the leaking seals, would it?

Can't anyone tell me if "Lucas Transmission Fix" would harm the gear box or not? Perhaps nobody has tried it? But if it is the seals, and I reckon there is a good chance it is that, surely this stuff is worth a try... but only if it does not do more harm.
 

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Can you give a bit of history on the car, how much distance on it, maintenance, what kind of life has it had?

I would double check the fluid level. It can be tough to read correctly and I ended up having some transmission issues because I was almost certain the level was good but it was in fact a bit low. (There tends to be a strip of fluid that will go above the actual read line. Only read it at the point where there is a very solid coating of oil all the way around the dipstick. It only took about a half quart of fluid to solve the problems, one of which included no reverse and also some loud clunking.

If you can get the codes read that would give you important information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Can you give a bit of history on the car, how much distance on it, maintenance, what kind of life has it had?

I would double check the fluid level. It can be tough to read correctly and I ended up having some transmission issues because I was almost certain the level was good but it was in fact a bit low. (There tends to be a strip of fluid that will go above the actual read line. Only read it at the point where there is a very solid coating of oil all the way around the dipstick. It only took about a half quart of fluid to solve the problems, one of which included no reverse and also some loud clunking.

If you can get the codes read that would give you important information.
Thanks for the info, I will double check again, but I have often done it (always hot), or rather my wife has because she has smaller hands to grab the dipstick!

Your car -- Concorde -- is, I believe the nearest to mine, the (European version) Chrysler Vision and the year is the same, but you have the 3.3L engine (easier to convert to LPG -- see below).

Car has had a pretty average low yearly mileage life (total ~ 100k) and the only non-accessory replacements have been the injectors, water pump and timing belt -- no direct engine or transmission repairs. When I bought it in 1998, I had it converted to dual fuel (petrol, ie gasoline, and gas, ie LPG). At the moment, it runs better on petrol. I need to adjust the LPG mixture settings. The transmission has been occasionally doing this thing for years (maybe10!) but that was occasional. Now it is constant.

Any opinion on Lucas Transmission Fix being safe to try?
 

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Thanks for the info, I will double check again, but I have often done it (always hot), or rather my wife has because she has smaller hands to grab the dipstick!

Your car -- Concorde -- is, I believe the nearest to mine, the (European version) Chrysler Vision and the year is the same, but you have the 3.3L engine (easier to convert to LPG -- see below).

Car has had a pretty average low yearly mileage life (total ~ 100k) and the only non-accessory replacements have been the injectors, water pump and timing belt -- no direct engine or transmission repairs. When I bought it in 1998, I had it converted to dual fuel (petrol, ie gasoline, and gas, ie LPG). At the moment, it runs better on petrol. I need to adjust the LPG mixture settings. The transmission has been occasionally doing this thing for years (maybe10!) but that was occasional. Now it is constant.

Any opinion on Lucas Transmission Fix being safe to try?
So, when was the Transmission Last serviced? How about he Diff as well?

As far as Seals drying up these Transmissions are not that old to really have that issue unless it sat un-used for several years at a time. Otherwise alot of us would have the same issue. The idea of "leaking seals" is from much older transmissions with alot more wear on them. And if any seals were to go bad it would either leak on the outside or you would have low pump pressure.

Alot of issues are either Mechanical in nature aka clutches/gears, or Solenoid pack which directly controls fluid pressure and shifting.


So being a Euro model You have the 3.5? How did you convert it to LPG?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So, when was the Transmission Last serviced? How about he Diff as well?
Never!

As far as Seals drying up these Transmissions are not that old to really have that issue unless it sat un-used for several years at a time. Otherwise alot of us would have the same issue.
That's good to know
if any seals were to go bad it would either leak on the outside or you would have low pump pressure.
Isn't it highly probable that I do have low pressure when the engine is cold and that puts it into limp mode?

So being a Euro model You have the 3.5? How did you convert it to LPG?
I had it done in France by what I found out later to be a team of cowboys. They did a terrible job and even inverted the oxygen sensors so that the LH sensors were regulating the RH cylinders and vice versa! Unbelievable... it was backfiring all the time.

It is a rather primitive system with venturis added to the throttle assemblies (twin on the 3.5L engine) and an electronic system to "fool" the engine into thinking the injectors were still working. But there is really no space under the hood for anything in this car! I have no spare wheel. The space is occupied by a 72 litre LPG tank.

However, when I sorted out all the initial problems mostly myself, it worked very well and my fuel bills were halved.

You didn't say what you though of the risk of trying the Lucas stuff. Is it risky or is it worth a try?
 

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Never!

That's good to knowIsn't it highly probable that I do have low pressure when the engine is cold and that puts it into limp mode?

I had it done in France by what I found out later to be a team of cowboys. They did a terrible job and even inverted the oxygen sensors so that the LH sensors were regulating the RH cylinders and vice versa! Unbelievable... it was backfiring all the time.

It is a rather primitive system with venturis added to the throttle assemblies (twin on the 3.5L engine) and an electronic system to "fool" the engine into thinking the injectors were still working. But there is really no space under the hood for anything in this car! I have no spare wheel. The space is occupied by a 72 litre LPG tank.

However, when I sorted out all the initial problems mostly myself, it worked very well and my fuel bills were halved.

You didn't say what you though of the risk of trying the Lucas stuff. Is it risky or is it worth a try?


Okay, so the Transmission has never been serviced, aka pan dropped and filter replaced and 7-8 qts of replacement ATF +4 added back? Cause if "never" is the answer then Lucas is not going to help a transmission that has not been taken care of. Service interval is every 30K miles for a Pan drop and filter change and the Diff which has it's own sump takes gear oil and most do it every 60K-100K miles
 

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I would like to recommend the TransGo shift kit. There are seals around accumulator pistons in the valve body that go bad, break, go away over the years and can cause issues like you describe. I had similar issues and after installing the kit (I did not do the pump stuff, just the valve body section of the installation) I did not have any of the issues I had. I was having a problem where if the car sat for a period of time, say, overnight, I would be able to reverse, and could shift into first (D) but I would lose forward drive as soon as the next upshift would occur. Warming up, or shifting into neutral and giving it a few good long revs would correct the issue. The 3-4 accumulator was de-priming and had an air pocket in it. I suspect the same is happening to your Low/Reverse accumulator. So the kit replaces all of those seals and it is fairly simple to install. Much cheaper than a rebuild and you do not get into the planetary gearset/clutch packs/etc. with this partial rebuild. It can easily be done in your driveway, just keep it clean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Okay, so the Transmission has never been serviced, aka pan dropped and filter replaced and 7-8 qts of replacement ATF +4 added back? Cause if "never" is the answer then Lucas is not going to help a transmission that has not been taken care of. Service interval is every 30K miles for a Pan drop and filter change and the Diff which has it's own sump takes gear oil and most do it every 60K-100K miles
Oh, no... I said in the OP that I had changed the transmission fluid (Mopar ATF+4), the filter and the input speed sensor very recently. Prior to that, it was not serviced.

The old fluid was not in bad condition and there were no nasties such as debris and iron filings. The filter was not clogged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I would like to recommend the TransGo shift kit. There are seals around accumulator pistons in the valve body that go bad, break, go away over the years and can cause issues like you describe. I had similar issues and after installing the kit (I did not do the pump stuff, just the valve body section of the installation) I did not have any of the issues I had. I was having a problem where if the car sat for a period of time, say, overnight, I would be able to reverse, and could shift into first (D) but I would lose forward drive as soon as the next upshift would occur. Warming up, or shifting into neutral and giving it a few good long revs would correct the issue. The 3-4 accumulator was de-priming and had an air pocket in it. I suspect the same is happening to your Low/Reverse accumulator. So the kit replaces all of those seals and it is fairly simple to install. Much cheaper than a rebuild and you do not get into the planetary gearset/clutch packs/etc. with this partial rebuild. It can easily be done in your driveway, just keep it clean.
Many thanks for the info. I there is a kit on Amazon... they are really cheap and I'll bear it in mind. But my symptoms are rather different. No amount of revving will make any difference when it is cold. The only thing that works is the temperature. If the car is at normal operating temperature everything is fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Cowboys? :facepalm: :Chair:
... well yes... you know what I mean!

They even somehow got the engine to backfire through the inlet manifold so violently that it blew off the venturis they had fitted to the throttles... and they managed to tie a wire from the distributor to a hot pipe which obviously shorted and gave me a breakdown on the highway! The problems they caused were endless.

I think they went out of business :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the replies, many of them giving really helpful advice, but I am not too convinced that my real symptoms were made clear. Here is a recap.

Firstly, I have changed the fluid (Mopar ATF+4), filter and input speed sensor. When this was done, nothing bad was found: old filter and fluid OK, no iron filings etc. The fluid level is not low (it is over the top "hot" hole in the dipstick).

Symptoms:
1) shifts perfectly into all gears when hot*
2) very occasionally has a "hard" engagement after a stop at, for example, a road junction
3) * until engine temperature gauge is normal (2nd graduation on the gauge), tranny is in limp mode and no reverse.

* NOTE
1) When I say "hot", this is the first use of the day. Once the temperature has reached the normal range and I stop and restart the engine, the tranny is fine for the day. Even if I let it cool down for several hours and then use it again, it still shifts perfectly.

2) If I do not drive it until it is hot (it must be the second graduation on the gauge, not the the first one)not touching the shift lever but leaving it to idle in "park" for about 15 minutes, then it does not go into limp mode and I do not need to stop and restart the engine.
 

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Thanks for all the replies, many of them giving really helpful advice, but I am not too convinced that my real symptoms were made clear. Here is a recap.

Firstly, I have changed the fluid (Mopar ATF+4), filter and input speed sensor. When this was done, nothing bad was found: old filter and fluid OK, no iron filings etc. The fluid level is not low (it is over the top "hot" hole in the dipstick). This would be overfilled unless its barely over it. Overfilling can cause issues. Mine is currently just below the hole.

Symptoms:
1) shifts perfectly into all gears when hot*
2) very occasionally has a "hard" engagement after a stop at, for example, a road junction Slowing down or speeding up?
3) * until engine temperature gauge is normal (2nd graduation on the gauge), tranny is in limp mode and no reverse.

* NOTE
1) When I say "hot", this is the first use of the day. Once the temperature has reached the normal range and I stop and restart the engine, the tranny is fine for the day. Even if I let it cool down for several hours and then use it again, it still shifts perfectly.

2) If I do not drive it until it is hot (it must be the second graduation on the gauge, not the the first one)not touching the shift lever but leaving it to idle in "park" for about 15 minutes, then it does not go into limp mode and I do not need to stop and restart the engine.
Also, if the transmission will operate fine when warm/hot than Seals are not the issue IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Also, if the transmission will operate fine when warm/hot than Seals are not the issue IMHO.
What could it be then?

The guy I spoke to here (a transmission specialist) said that the seals lose their flexibility with age and this causes them to leak when cold. When they warm up they become more flexible and no longer leak. It seemed logical to me. But I am all ears for any other logical explanation of the problem.
 
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