DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums banner
1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all, hope you're doing good. I was wondering if anyone else had any guesses/similar experiences with their cars. Bought a 93 intrepid from a guy who said it had no reverse or neutral so he'd have to drag it out of his driveway with another car. Like wheels locked dragging. That didn't sound right so we started it, put it in neutral and tried to roll it back but could not. It was like it was caught on the gear or something, so we rolled it back and forth and after about the third time it released backwards. After that reverse also worked again, but if you hit the brake in reverse you have to rock the car back and forth again. Honestly dont know what to make of it, maybe replacing trans speed sensor? Any help would be appreciated!

TLDR: Car sounds like it shifts but has no reverse and cant roll back in neutral, but is reliably fixed by rocking the car back and forth. Once reverse is fixed if you hit the brake you lose reverse and cant roll back in neutral till you rock it again. drive works fine all the time PLEASE AND THANK YOU
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Yeah I agree, the first and easiest thing to check before a diagnosis by a shop is a quick check of the brake system. An outside chance of an oddball problem with badly deteriorated disc brake calipers & pads, or on a '93 you could have drum brakes and brake shoes. The drum brakes have a few springs and plates that could also be badly deteriorated. The parking brake on a car with disc brakes also has drum-like shoes operated by the cable than runs to an under-dash ratcheting mechanism. But to get to the parking brake itself takes some disassembly and at least instructions from the Haynes '93-'97 manual which has decent photos (or Chilton manual with drawings available, or pdf of Factory Service Manual on this site under the red "subforum" link.) But before taking anything apart, I'd also check if the parking brake is working normally or slipping. Things can be seriously messed up in there with rust and spring/plate breakage if it was never serviced over all these years.

Yes, you could replace the transmission input and output speed sensors (not that difficult a job), but I doubt that bad signals on those would be corrected by just rocking the car; and obviously not by rocking if the car is not running.

If you need to take it to a shop, I'd first take it to a good regular independent mechanic for a look on the lift, just a bit off the floor, to see what is going on with the wheel rotation and lock up. At a transmission shop, obviously except for doing work on the easily removable transmission valve body, solenoid pack, and replacing speed sensors, having a shop replace or rebuild a 1st Gen Intrepid/LH 42LE transmission that's got internal problems will cost far more than the car is worth.

It's a weird problem, so let us know what you find out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,249 Posts
Yeah I agree, the first and easiest thing to check before a diagnosis by a shop is a quick check of the brake system. An outside chance of an oddball problem with badly deteriorated disc brake calipers & pads, or on a '93 you could have drum brakes and brake shoes. The drum brakes have a few springs and plates that could also be badly deteriorated. The parking brake on a car with disc brakes also has drum-like shoes operated by the cable than runs to an under-dash ratcheting mechanism. But to get to the parking brake itself takes some disassembly and at least instructions from the Haynes '93-'97 manual which has decent photos (or Chilton manual with drawings available, or pdf of Factory Service Manual on this site under the red "subforum" link.) But before taking anything apart, I'd also check if the parking brake is working normally or slipping. Things can be seriously messed up in there with rust and spring/plate breakage if it was never serviced over all these years.

Yes, you could replace the transmission input and output speed sensors (not that difficult a job), but I doubt that bad signals on those would be corrected by just rocking the car; and obviously not by rocking if the car is not running.

If you need to take it to a shop, I'd first take it to a good regular independent mechanic for a look on the lift, just a bit off the floor, to see what is going on with the wheel rotation and lock up. At a transmission shop, obviously except for doing work on the easily removable transmission valve body, solenoid pack, and replacing speed sensors, having a shop replace or rebuild a 1st Gen Intrepid/LH 42LE transmission that's got internal problems will cost far more than the car is worth.

It's a weird problem, so let us know what you find out.
Very possibly a mechanical brake problem like you suggest, but don't overlook a possible hose problem like Veeborg suggested. There have been instances (strange and rare, but real) in which a rubber brake hose comes apart inside or collapses causing the hose to act like a check valve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Very possibly a mechanical brake problem like you suggest, but don't overlook a possible hose problem like Veeborg suggested. There have been instances (strange and rare, but real) in which a rubber brake hose comes apart inside or collapses causing the hose to act like a check valve.
That is very interesting.

And most people I knew didn't flush their conventional brake fluid at regular intervals. Probably because many of the old maintenance schedules didn't even mention it. I think people also thought mechanics were trying to "upsell" them by advising it.

I replaced my four flex hoses before they could go bad. I got the AC Delcos when they had them, but Rockauto.com still has a lot of good ones cheap for the OP's 1993 and other 1st Gen from Raybestos, Centric, etc. (again, get the "Daily Driver," not "Economy"). Also they still have all sorts of brake parts for Intrepids/LH cars, probably NOS: calipers, brake pads or shoes, rotors or drums, etc. Locally NAPA, Car Quest/Advance Auto or maybe O'Reily may also still have decent parts but often priced significantly higher.

If the OPs brake system is in bad shape and causing the problem due to broken parts or debris/rust in the lines, here's more misc brake system info:

Replacing the four rubber flex lines is easy, but replacing the corroded brake hard lines is a bit of a pain with a Lisle or other brake tube bender. I got 50 feet of the the UltraBend 3/16" tubing off Amazon and the metric fittings at the local parts stores, and bought a good ISO bubble flare tool and small tubing cutter (You may be able to borrow a tube flaring tool for free from the parts stores, but need the metric ISO bubble flare version, not standard flares). As people know here, it's a little tricky though to get good bends and flares. (YouTube videos and websites on this.) I've patched a bad section on my car but will need to do the whole system eventually. (See the Factory Service Manual for good brake line info and the metric fitting sizes throughout the system.)

You can still buy various straight lengths of brake line with the fitings pre-installed at the local parts stores. However, you have to be sure to get the correct fittings on the 3/16" (4.75mm) corrosion-resistant tube. The pdf of the Factory Service Manual (in the Service Informaton subforum) has a good diagram for both the ABS and non-ABS systems showing the fittings: M10x1, M12x1 or 3/8x24.

You used to be able to to get some of the the shorter pre-bent front sections of the brake tubing from the local Dodge/Chrysler dealers as well as the online Mopar sellers and ebay (part numbers in the pdf Parts Catalog in the subforum). It might still be worth searching on the numbers from the pdf Parts Catalog. However, I noticed that searching on the two long rear section part numbers just gets you a roll of Mopar tubing to bend yourself.

As I wrote, doing brake work with the 93-95 cars if you have the anti-lock brake option is a real pain without a good ODB-1 scanner like the Snap-On MT2500 that I have, along with the correct standard module for the car make and year and an additional plug-in ABS module. (Other correctly-dated modules for the Intrepid are required for other work; lots of Snap-On info about using those old scanners online).

When done, and refilling the system with brake fluid, you need to do the regular bleed procedure, then run the scanner brake bleed procedure to cycle the gizmos inside the ABS pump; and per the FSM, repeat the regular bleed procedure.

When replacing the flex or hard lines, there may be no way to avoid getting air into the ABS pump, but I'd still try to plug the appropriate fittings (little rubber brake line plugs available) to keep the brake fluid reservoir from dropping. That may be hopeless though, so the system should be bled with the appropirate OBD-1 scanner (most old scanners just read any trouble codes). Otherwise you've got a spongy brake pedal and the ABS may not work - air in it may also damage the pump (don't know). New or reman Mopar ABS pumps are very hard to find any more, and expensive. Junkyard ones may not work, but are a last resort if cheap.

The Chrysler/Dodge dealers may still have the Mopar version of the OBD-1 scan tool to work on old cars (called the DRBIII), but some independent shops may not have Snap-On or other OBD-1 scanners any more that will work. So you should ask specifically about this OBD-1 ABS pump bleed issue before they do any brake work on a '93-'95 LH car.

Getting all the Snap-On stuff you need to use an old Snap-On MT2500 OBD-1 scanner off ebay for '93-'95 1st Gen cars isn't easy or cheap (a couple hundred dollars if you get all the plug-in modules and cable/connector that you need also). And you really also need the appropriate Snap-On manuals, with one specific to Chrysler cars. There are a few manuals, sometimes they come up ebay too, or a few are available in pdf by Googling: Snap On MT2500 manual. The best thing if you don't have a lot of spare time to mess around endlessly with that like me is to find a good (older) independent mechanic that still regularly does brakes with ABS on OBD-1 cars for a decent price. Even if the Chrysler/Dodge dealer still has the Chrysler DRBIII scanner, they'll likely charge a lot more money than an independent shop.

By the way, I believe there are several consumer OBD-2 scanners for under $200 that may bleed the 1996 and later Intrepid/LH ABS systems. People have mentioned at least one brand in the brake threads here. You'd have to check the manufacturer's specs for the cars it covers.

If you don't have ABS, it is just the standard bleed procedure. You can see the manuals for determining what you've got. For example, on the 1st Gen with 3.3L motor the round ABS pump can be seen under a black sheet-metal cover; it's connected to the brake master cylinder with metal braided flex lines. On non-ABS, the lines from the master cylinder just run to ~1" thick aluminum block proportioning valve assembly mounted to the rear of the battery.
Motor vehicle Automotive battery Automotive exterior Auto part Vehicle


Borrowed member's image:
Plant Automotive tire Motor vehicle Wheel Bumper

Years ago before I got the Snap-On scanner off ebay, I actually looked into removing the ABS system if I had more problems with it (the expensive ABS relay failed twice as I recall). I did initially get a couple new parts to do this (Mopar non-ABS proportioning valve block, non-ABS master cylinder & reservoir), but would also need a non-ABS brake booster (reman still available). Would have to use new bended hard lines and may run into other problems (don't know). I received good advice not to do it, and the ABS has worked fine since then and helped me a couple times in the snow.

If the ABS pump itself goes out mechanically/electrically or the ABS control module or wheel sensors go bad, the manuals say that the brakes will still operate fine in standard mode without ABS. However, with the ABS not working, the potential issue of air in the pump causing a somewhat spongy pedal will still always be a potential problem after brake service (whenever you have to open a fluid-filled line), since even doing several standard bleeds may not get all air out of the ABS gizmos inside.

For the OP, if brakes are your problem, most of the 1st Gen brake repairs have been covered before in the old threads on this site. In addition the Haynes, Chilton and Factory manuals (pdf or paper one off ebay) are very good for this. Lots of YouTube videos and websites on brake repairs too.

And, I should mention as well that there are a couple of previous theories from members here that the ABS system can be bled with a gravity bleed or by activating the ABS on an icy or loose gravel road. Others however have posted elsewhere that driving the car with air in the ABS pump gizmos can damage them. Don't know. See these threads below, and there are some others found by searching the site on ABS and non-ABS brake bleeding:

Soft Brake Pedal After Installing ABS

ABS Issue
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,458 Posts
I've bled, and flush my brake system many times with ABS with no issues. Keep the MC full. If you think you got air in the ABS find a gravel road, and below 40mph hit the brakes to activate the abs. then re bleed system.

20 years now ownership brakes damn good. Tho the 300M PHP brakes may help out a wee bit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
I've bled, and flush my brake system many times with ABS with no issues. Keep the MC full. If you think you got air in the ABS find a gravel road, and below 40mph hit the brakes to activate the abs. then re bleed system.

20 years now ownership brakes damn good. Tho the 300M PHP brakes may help out a wee bit.
Yes, good point, if you can keep the master cylinder reservoir full when bleeding the system, not a problem, since it is above the ABS pump. I have one of those pressure bleeders that looks like a garden sprayer that makes it a one-man job (but had to fashion my own MC reservoir cap for it, since the ones they have listed for Chysler/Dodge don't fit the LH cars.)

Same deal if you've got to replace or patch old rusted hard lines or put on new calipers - you've got to try to plug the cut line or fitting with a plug. (The rubber plugs I found at the auto parts store still leaked a tiny amount.) Replacing the MC itself, you might also be able to quickly plug the flex lines fittings to the ABS pump. In any case, like that one recent linked post above, a few mechanics may not know how to do it properly - poster wrote his mechanic "struggled to bleed the ABS." I was told by a local mechanic years ago that shops with Snap-On (or other brand) modern scanners do the ABS pump purge bleed on all newer cars whenever opening the lines - it's right there in the screen menu. It is shown using a Solus Ultra starting at time 2:26 in this YouTube mechanic's video:

Bleeding the ABS Brake Control Module,On a Chevy Using Snap On Solus Ultra
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top