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Discussion Starter #1
remember how back in the day, before the after market really took off, people would gain performance by interchanging stock parts? according to allpar the generations of 3.3 had different hp and torque ratings. and are as follows
3.3L 1990-1993 150 @ 4800 RPM 180 @ 3600 RPM
3.3L 1994-1995 162 @ 4800 RPM 194 @ 3600 RPM
3.3L 1996-2000 158 @ 4850 RPM 203 @ 3250 RPM
i know that seceral years have different intake styles, that wont fit under the hood of a trep, say you didnt have to worry about the hood clearance issue, and could use any intake. what model cam, which style intake, and what throttle body, would make for more power over the 94-95 3.3, or more torque over the 96-00 3.3?
better simpler question, since i can't seem to find flow rates on any part of the trep, which intake, throttle body, heads, flow most, and which cam has te highest lift and duration? I've done several searches for this information, and can't seem to find it. maybe i'm just looking in the wrong places. thanks for any input.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i figured i would have to do that, but making the sensors work would be a breeze with my skills. just drill the proper hole, tap it, and screw in sensor right? but i can promise one thing, if i can find the specs i'm looking for i'll write up a recipe for the meanest combination that i can com eup with.
 

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You have probably looked at Allpar at before, maybe even this section, but in case you haven't seen this page on the 3.3/3.5/3.8.
<http://allpar.com/mopar/33.html>

I've also seen a page that has notes on rebuiling the 3.3/3.8, I don't remember if it is this page or not. The neat thing about that page was it gave some interchangeabilty info.
 

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I have also been trying to gather up the same info, unfortunately I've gotten about as far as you have. The 3.5L intake will not bolt up to the 3.3L engine either on the heads or the lower intake however as far as I can tell the 3.5L upper and the 3.3L lower are very similar in the mounting surface, you might be able to drill and tap the intakes to bolt together but there isn't any real way to tell untill you've got both pieces in your hands. This seems to be the biggest problem that I'm running into, and the complete lack of 3.8L engines in the area isn't helping either. I gotta go work for the Dodge Dealer or junkyard or something!

I have been doing this research in hopes of building a 3.5L OHV engine for my car(aka stick a 3.8L crank in a 3.3L). I will be buying a complete 3.8L engine hoping that the stories about grinding off the engine mounts are false, however if neccessary I will also buy a 3.3L intrepid block and use that as a base for rebuild. For those curious I am going to check on the possibility of boring the 3.3 block to 3.8 and then I will decide to stick with 3.5L or go to 3.8L.

Back to intakes, I have been collecting pictures of all the different intakes used on the 3.3/3.8L engines and I'd be glad to post them up if you are interested. I have a couple of cylinder head pics too, btw.
 

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This information seems to be for the 94-95 engine (at least the HP/TQ data given match what you've posted for that engine) ...

Six Cylinder Engines (by DaimlerChrysler) said:
Valves
Size
IN 1.79" (45.5mm)
EX 1.476" (37.5mm)

Timing
IN OPEN 2° BTC
IN CLOSE 58° ABC
EX OPEN 48° BBC
EX CLOSE 12° ATC

Lift
IN & EX 0.400" (10.16mm)
No information on flow rates, etc, but I can tell you that the '99 Voyager intake is different than the '96 Concorde intake.
I'll try to remember to take a look at the exhaust manifolds this weekend when the Concorde is here but I suspect they're the same (log) ...
Chewievette said:
Back to intakes, I have been collecting pictures of all the different intakes used on the 3.3/3.8L engines and I'd be glad to post them up if you are interested. I have a couple of cylinder head pics too, btw.
I'd be interested even though I'm not doing a project ... :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I would be intrested in those pics too. I imagine the cam from the 3.8 would make a difference, if it would fit... does anyone know the answer to that? I emailed dodge they sent me a reply saying that they were going to reply....... then i finally got a reply, said "thank you for your intrest in the 3.3L engine, we currently do not have the information you are looking for, you may want to try our MOPAR performance parts website. they may have the information you are looking for." back to square one. mopar perf parts doesnt know either. atleast if they do they arent telling. if the throttle body, intake and heads were ported drasticly, would the ECM need to be reprogramed to handle the extra air, or would bigger injectors suffice??
 

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From the research that I've done, all internals are interchangable between the 3.3 and 3.8L with obvious exceptions being the different bore pistons. However just to make sure I'm going to spend some time at the local machine shop and see if they have or can get me the specs on both engines.

I dont know the exact answer to your question, but here's my best guess. The ECM doesn't NEED to be reprogramed but if you want the full potential of the "new" parts it would be a good idea. Unfortunately Dodge doesn't make that very easy to do.

Here's an appetizer for you guys, I will have the rest of my pics up later tonight.
2002 3.8L all Aluminum Intake
 

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griffinzein said:
I would be intrested in those pics too. I imagine the cam from the 3.8 would make a difference, if it would fit... does anyone know the answer to that? I emailed dodge they sent me a reply saying that they were going to reply....... then i finally got a reply, said "thank you for your intrest in the 3.3L engine, we currently do not have the information you are looking for, you may want to try our MOPAR performance parts website. they may have the information you are looking for." back to square one. mopar perf parts doesnt know either. atleast if they do they arent telling. if the throttle body, intake and heads were ported drasticly, would the ECM need to be reprogramed to handle the extra air, or would bigger injectors suffice??
I'm pretty sure Chewie is right. If I'm reading this right (and I'm 99% sure that I am) the only differences between the 3.3L and 3.8L is the bore & stroke (93.0mm x 81.0mm v 96.0mm x 87.0mm), piston weight, piston pin length, etc. The numbers I gave you for the valves apply to BOTH engines - so I assume the cam is the same as well as the heads, since they're closed chamber.

Just so you know, the HP numbers they're giving are the same for both but the 3.8L has a little more torque - about what you'd expect from a mild stroker ...
 

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Well, you'd think so but from what I'm seeing in the Six Cylinder Book they don't. Same valve sizes, same timing, same lift - what do you think? There's four pages of info here with two columns - one for the 3.3L and one for the 3.8L. Most of the listings - except the one's I mentioned above - show just one number in the center, meaning it's the same for both engines. The book is available through Mopar Performance. I got it because I wanted more info on my 3.5L HO. I was a little disappointed but some others on here have enjoyed some benefit from it so it wasn't a total loss. And it was interesting reading ...
 

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:doh:
I've been an idiot! I've been pulling out the Six Cylinder Book and right next to it are TWO FSM's! I've got the '96 LH FSM (for the Concorde) and the '99 NS FSM for the Voyager. First off, yes - the engines are the same except for the obvious for the stroke & bore (pistons, crank, etc.). The '99 FSM has a different line for the 3.8L and 3.3L if they are different specs. So here are some basics from the '99 NS FSM ...

3.3L CR 8.9:1
3.8L CR 9.6:1

3.3L 158 HP/203 ft.lb. (161/181 shown in the '96 LH FSM)
3.8L 180 HP/240 ft.lb.

The info for the valves hasn't changed in the '99 NS FSM compared to the info posted earlier (from the Six Cylinder Book) and as shown in the '96 LH FSM. All valve information applies to both engines. If you can find a parts manual for the '99 vans (they have both engines available) then you could see if the heads or cams are different - but I bet they're not ...
 

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I read that the newer (2000+) 3.8L engines had different intake, heads, and cam that gave it about 20 more hp and a bit more torque. I dont know which part did the trick but I figured that it was the combo. I figured that if you wanted a relatively simple wake up for your engine, get the heads and cam from the newest 3.8L you can find and swap them onto your 3.3L! That's oversimplified of course but it's easier than a full rebuild. Just a little brain food for you guys. I'm planning a similar concept for my car. I'll be building up the bottom end with 3.8L parts and installing the original 3.3L upper end. Then after porting the 3.8L heads and intake I'll put those on while it's in the car. I thought I could reduce down time like that, barring any unforseen obsticles of course.
 

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Well, as promised here's the start of my collection. I dont think I've got them all yet but I seem to have to most common ones. I wont bother with the Intrepid as we have all seen that one. I have found two for the 3.3L cars, two for the 3.3L vans, and one unique to the 3.8L vans.

1992 Dynasty 3.3L, I dont think the dynasty ever got anything different.


1994 Town & Country 3.8L, Same as Dynasty.


2000 Town & Country 3.3L, Looks like previous but taller.


2000 Town & Country 3.8L, Better angle on the added height, makes for smoother curves.


2002 Caravan 3.3L, Totally new design, I'm still not sure if this will bolt in place of the old style intake. This is two pieces bottom is Aluminum, top is Plastic


2002 Caravan 3.8L, Very similar to 3.3L of the same year however top and bottom pieces are Aluminum.


2005 Caravan 3.3L, Looks to be the same as '02 version. Dont have pic of new 3.8L


Be sure to look over ever aspect of the intake your thinking of putting on your car, the last three I posted here will locate the throttle body at the front of the engine, good for ram air, bad for ducting. If you guys can help me in finding good pics of the other intakes or better pics of these I would certainly appreciate it. Most of these pics are from EvilBay.
 

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And before I forget, here's the cylinder heads I promised...

1996 Intrepid 3.3L



1996 Caravan 3.3L


3.3L Caravan, unfortunately I dont have the year



Bare 3.3L Plymouth engine, for those that dont realize how narrow this engine is!


These pics were also liberated from the Bay.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
is CHR 505 the part number for the head? i would flip for a set of quench type combustion chamers on my ride. best way to jump compression without machine work. and with a little work you could unshroud the intake valve port it and jump one valve size on intake and exhaust, and you would be back to stock compression, or close to it. then shave the head to get the comp up a bit, and BAM my dream 3.3 head. this site never ceases to amaze me. im glad the we have a place like this to share ideas and information. i found some stuff tats intresting but dont have time to list it, i will when i get home, along with my recipe as it is so far.
 

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www.dodgeparts.com shows the 2005 3.3L and 3.8L camshafts as separate parts. $108.42(3.3L) vs. $171.60(3.8L). Cylinder heads are also shown as separate parts but the same price($214.50). The Camshafts and Cylinder heads for both the Intrepid and the Dynasty are different prices which leads me to believe that they are different part numbers. I need to find a catalog with part numbers to be sure. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to pick the brain of the guy that designed these engines??

I found this too, for your further enjoyment...
Oddly enough you can only view this diagram while looking at the Town and Country section it is not with the other cars.
 

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griffinzein said:
is CHR 505 the part number for the head? i would flip for a set of quench type combustion chamers on my ride.
Chewievette said:
1996 Intrepid 3.3L


3.3L Caravan, unfortunately I dont have the year
:confused: That looks like the same head as the '96 - except it's clean ...
 
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