[Adpros]

I can obviously see I'm late to the discussion. The dry condition of the hoses should have been a good indicator of a leak from the beginning. My rule of thumb has always been to pour in coolant or just water in summer months, to find the leak responsible for the dry hoses first. Then start figuring out what needs to be replaced. However, I will add a tip here that you should not replace the short piece of connecting hose on the t-stat housing with ordinary hose. Try to save the original one if possible. It is made to weather the high temperature near the exhaust manifold there. Also, don't use screw clamps if at all possible. They will cut into the short hose and start a new leak.

 

[Adpros]

There is a gasket on the t-stat housing. It's difficult to install the t-stat cover while keeping the gasket and t-stat in proper position. I alluded to that in my earlier post. The t-stat tends to fall off center and wedges between the cover and base, then the gasket won't seal. That may or may not be your problem. A technique has been posted for that in the past - I'll try to find that to copy/paste to save me some typing.

It requires a hammer and a drift. "Stake" the edges of the housing ever so slightly over the thermostat edge in two or three places to prevent the t-stat from falling out when you are re-installing the housing.

The housing screws, (Bolts), will hold the gasket in place while getting it installed. Be sure and use a new gasket. The sealing edges on old ones will detach from the outer frame.

 

[peva]

I can obviously see I'm late to the discussion. The dry condition of the hoses should have been a good indicator of a leak from the beginning. My rule of thumb has always been to pour in coolant or just water in summer months, to find the leak responsible for the dry hoses first. Then start figuring out what needs to be replaced. However, I will add a tip here that you should not replace the short piece of connecting hose on the t-stat housing with ordinary hose. Try to save the original one if possible. It is made to weather the high temperature near the exhaust manifold there. Also, don't use screw clamps if at all possible. They will cut into the short hose and start a new leak.

Good points. Yes - that short hose can be difficult to seal. I suggest using silicone heater hose (NAPA sells it by the foot - 3/4" is the right size - expensive - something like $15/ft., but will last forever.

I also agree to not using screw-type clamps. The factory spring-type clams are best because they clamp evenly all the way around, and will keep steady, moderate pressure around the hose even after the hose takes a compression set. Spring-type clamps don't compensate for hose compression set, which tempts people to overtighten the clamp, which risks hose wall cut-through. Lots of people do not like working with the factory spring-type clamps, but getting a decent cable-type spring clamp remove-install tool eliminates the problems (plan on spending $25-30 for a decent tool - cheaper ones are generally total crap).

The screw clamps are especially bad to use on silicone hose. Silicone hose walls are too soft and squishy - the rubber extrudes thru the screw thread slots. Silicone hose + spring-type clamps are the perfect combination.

It requires a hammer and a drift. "Stake" the edges of the housing ever so slightly over the thermostat edge in two or three places to prevent the t-stat from falling out when you are re-installing the housing.

The housing screws, (Bolts), will hold the gasket in place while getting it installed. Be sure and use a new gasket. The sealing edges on old ones will detach from the outer frame.

That works, but the technique I was thinking of involves temporarily placing a rod or long screw across the outboard end of the cover and looping a zip tie to span between the rod/screw and the thermostat to hold the thermostat in place while installing the cover, then cut the zip tie and remove it and the rod/screw.

 

[peva]

Ok. Thank you for the advise. I replace the water pump, thermostat, and fan. I did have to take out the radiator to get out the harmonic balancer. I got everything put back together. Put in coolant and it is pouring out somewhere I think near the thermostat. I'm going to take a break and check where the leak is coming from. It's like a hose isn't connected. So I have to lift up the car to do a visual. Hmmm... All this was supposed to run smoothly. Haha

My point about the newer type damper pulley pullers is that they are short enough that the radiator can be left in place (put a piece of corrugated cardboard over the rear side of the radiator so you don't rip a hole in the radiator if a tool slips).

 

[peva]

Inspect and verify that the metal pipe that connects to the thermostat cover thru the short piece of heater hose isn't rusted thru. That does happen at the age of these cars. But you're right - the leak probably is gasket or hose problem.

 

[Adpros]

Great summary of the silicone hose and the screw clamps Peva. I so often saw leaks at this hose for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Also, I had totally forgotten about the zip-tie method of keeping the t-stat in place during installation. I always used the staking method b/c I so frequently found the lack of clearance during installation was frustrating enough without worrying about another thing added on the outside of the housing. I'm sure it works perfectly though!

Nice to see you are still hanging about! I retired in 2017, so I occasionally drop in to see the trials and tribulations of LH ownership going into 2021. LH is all my past now as well. I guess I should see if anyone wants to take some old stuff off my hands that's just lying about in storage. Do you still LH sir?

 

[peva]

Great summary of the silicone hose and the screw clamps Peva. I so often saw leaks at this hose for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Also, I had totally forgotten about the zip-tie method of keeping the t-stat in place during installation. I always used the staking method b/c I so frequently found the lack of clearance during installation was frustrating enough without worrying about another thing added on the outside of the housing. I'm sure it works perfectly though!

Nice to see you are still hanging about! I retired in 2017, so I occasionally drop in to see the trials and tribulations of LH ownership going into 2021. LH is all my past now as well. I guess I should see if anyone wants to take some old stuff off my hands that's just lying about in storage. Do you still LH sir?

I definitely remember you. 👍

Sold my 2nd and last Concorde (along with a boatload of misc. spare parts) last year to Terry/TGS for a song. It had gotten the obligatory corroded/ruptured rear brake line - further inspection revealed metastatic brake line cancer throughout. At 69 years old, I didn't feel like dealing with it. Except for my '85 F150, I only own late-model cars now. I retired last month, but will be doing some part-time contract work starting in February training several young whippersnapper engineers to take my place. LOL!!

 

[Adpros]

I definitely remember you. 👍

Sold my 2nd and last Concorde (along with a boatload of misc. spare parts) last year to Terry/TGS for a song. It had gotten the obligatory corroded/ruptured rear brake line - further inspection revealed metastatic brake line cancer throughout. At 69 years old, I didn't feel like dealing with it. Except for my '85 F150, I only own late-model cars now. I retired last month, but will be doing some part-time contract work starting in February training several young whippersnapper engineers to take my place. LOL!!

Ah yes, the "Whippersnappers!"

As for us, we are now 100% electric. Nissan Leaf. It's actually not a bad drive!

One morning, I came down to the better half wearing that all-too-familiar look. It's the one she wears when she is planning something she thinks I'm not going to like. Before the day was out, we were Leaf owners.

I guess I'll have to peddle my items somewhere. It'd be a shame to just pitch them.

Did you see the 9k mileage, very red LH TGS found for sale? Super sharp looking!

 

[rusty69]

I bought an 02 Trep w/3.5L which had an overheating problem. After wasting a bunch of time, I found the problem to be that some knucklehead had removed the thermostat, and installed a new one UPSIDE DOWN. They are supposed to also be oriented(rotated) a certain way, so examine the t-stat closely and you'll see what I mean.

 

[CatsIntrepid]

I found that my car was leaking because the thermostat housing wasn't screwed on tight enough. That problem is fixed. So I went to start the car and it wouldn't turn over then there was a little pop and a bit of smoke came out of from behind the belts. ***K! Did I do something wrong?

 

[Adpros]

I found that my car was leaking because the thermostat housing wasn't screwed on tight enough. That problem is fixed. So I went to start the car and it wouldn't turn over then there was a little pop and a bit of smoke came out of from behind the belts. ***K! Did I do something wrong?

That's a loaded question if I ever heard one!

No disrespect intended CatsIntrepid. I'm wondering if you have everything put back where it was in relation to timing belt timing etc. (When you did the water pump.) Did you also replace the timing belt with a new one at the time you did the pump? Does the engine turn over in a seemingly proper manner? Or, does it seem to refuse to turn over at all?

 

[rusty69]

I found that my car was leaking because the thermostat housing wasn't screwed on tight enough. That problem is fixed. So I went to start the car and it wouldn't turn over then there was a little pop and a bit of smoke came out of from behind the belts. ***K! Did I do something wrong?

I assume you're referring to the alternator belts? When you say the engine "wouldn't turn over", you need to be more specific. To me, "wouldn't turn over" means the engine wouldn't crank. To others, it means the engine wouldn't fire and run on its own after cranking it.
A "puff of smoke" could be coming from within the alternator, or at the cable connections to the alternator, or possibly at the electrical connection behind the alternator. I think I'd loosen the alternator belts, to make sure the alt. pulley can spin free. Then I'd make sure all the electrical connections are clean and tight.

 

[CatsIntrepid]

So I realized it might be the timing. I redid the timing belt to make sure everything was lined up. It was not at the right setting. So I made sure to line it up exactly after watching a few you tube videos on how to do it. I still have to put the radiator and fan back in and will try again to start the car in the morning when I finish. So.. when I said it wouldn't turn over I ment I could hear it starting to start but wouldn't crank over to a start. The puff of smoke came from somewhere in the engine. Actually it popped off the air filter lid and was coming from inside there from somewhere.

 

[CatsIntrepid]

That thermostat is a bugar to get out and in. I thought it was nice and tight until water poured out of it then after checking I found it wasn't as tight as I thought it was. Retightened it and no more leak. Thank God

 

[peva]

...The puff of smoke came from somewhere in the engine. Actually it popped off the air filter lid and was coming from inside there from somewhere.

With timing off, it sounds like it backfired thru the intake. You're lucky - there are a few threads in which huge holes were blown in the plenum by such a backfire.

Hopefully the timing wasn't off in such a way that pistons and valves collided.

Ahh! Here's an example - complete with a nice photo.

⇩

⇩

Intake explosion

Anybody ever see this happen?

www.dodgeintrepid.net

 

[Adpros]

With timing off, it sounds like it backfired thru the intake. You're lucky - there are a few threads in which huge holes were blown in the plenum by such a backfire.

Hopefully the timing wasn't off in such a way that pistons and valves collided.

Ahh! Here's an example - complete with a nice photo.

⇩

⇩

Intake explosion

Anybody ever see this happen?

www.dodgeintrepid.net

Rare for a 3.2 or 3.5 I'd say.

5.7 Hemi engines however, would do that frequently. And it wasn't a timing issue as I recall. I think it had something to do with how the plug wires were routed under the intake manifold. Sure was a sorry day for owners without warranty.

I also hope CatsIntrepid didn't incur any tingged valves in the process. That would add insult to injury.

 

[tgs]

So I realized it might be the timing. I redid the timing belt to make sure everything was lined up. It was not at the right setting. So I made sure to line it up exactly after watching a few you tube videos on how to do it. I still have to put the radiator and fan back in and will try again to start the car in the morning when I finish. So.. when I said it wouldn't turn over I ment I could hear it starting to start but wouldn't crank over to a start. The puff of smoke came from somewhere in the engine. Actually it popped off the air filter lid and was coming from inside there from somewhere.

Once you have the belt on. You are suppose to turn the crank over by hand at least two full revolutions (past the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley) making sure that everything is lined up.
Then you can run the engine for a few seconds to see if everything looks/sounds ok BEFORE putting it all back together.
It won't hurt to run it without coolant in it for a few seconds. Just slip the upper rad hose on so, it points down and away from the belt just in case any coolant comes flying out.
Once you are satisfied that it's all good, THEN you can put it all back together.

 

[CatsIntrepid]

Well I put everything back together and tried to start it. It turns over but doesn't start and backfired from manifold

 

[rusty69]

have you confirmed All three timing marks are lined up? You are aware that the crank lines up 2x for every cam sprocket lining up?
If you lined them up on the wrong #1 stroke, your ignition is 180(360) out of time. You should only be rotating engine by hand until you are POSITIVE it is timed correctly. You can pull all the spark plugs to help to make it easier. If you feel too much resistance, do not force it.

 

[Adpros]

Well I put everything back together and tried to start it. It turns over but doesn't start and backfired from manifold

After you assembled, did you roll it over by hand and verify the timing marks were again in-line? tgs makes a very valid point that this step helps a lot in making sure it was assembled correctly.

One thing that wasn't mentioned was to install a bypass on the transmission cooler lines to avoid making a huge mess of fluid everywhere.