DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi, I have a 2004 Intrepid 2.7L, with about 108K miles on it that I purchased a couple thousand miles ago. Seeing a strange but consistent/predictable issue, hoping somebody has in idea what may be the cause.

- About once a week, the check engine light comes on and it is usually code P0441 (Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge Flow), and/or sometimes P0440 (EVAP system is not working correctly).
- This only happens once the gas tank fuel level goes down to between 2/3 and 1/2 full (at which point I have driven 100 to 150 miles after fill up).
- I then clear the code (using OBD2 app) when I fill up the tank, which I usually do when gas is down to about 1/3 to 1/4 full.
- The engine light / code does not appear again until the gas tank fuel level goes again down to about 1/2 or a little more full.

An interesting note: The engine light only comes to stay on when I first start the car, never while I am driving. Not sure if that is the norm for engine lights coming/staying on due to fault, I would imagine it would come on while driving as well when the system detects a fault.

I have checked the vaccum related hoses in the engine compartment and the PCV valve, no obivous leaks or issues found, and have replaced the gas cap. Best I can figure is that once the air / vaccum level in the gas tank hits a certain level, it triggers the fault, but have no idea what then could be the offending part that needs fixing or replacement.

Any similiar experiences w/solution or ideas anyone? Thanks!

P.S. I realize there are a number of threads already regarding this EVAP fault code, and I have looked through them all, have not been able to find one yet that helps narrow down this particular issue.
 

·
Woober Goobers!
Joined
·
50,457 Posts
Symptom:
P0441-EVAP PURGE SYSTEM PERFORMANCE
When Monitored and Set Condition:
P0441-EVAP PURGE SYSTEM PERFORMANCE
When Monitored: Cold start test. Engine Running. Small Leak Test Passed.
Set Condition: The PCM activates the EVAP Purge solenoid gradually increases to
maximum flow. During flow, the PCM looks for the NVLD switch to close. If the PCM does
not see the NVLD switch close at maximum flow an error is detected. Two Trip Fault.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
GOOD TRIP EQUAL TO ZERO
INTERMITTENT CONDITION
CHECKING EVAP PURGE SOLENOID FUNCTIONALITY
EVAP PURGE SOLENOID VACUUM SUPPLY
 

·
Woober Goobers!
Joined
·
50,457 Posts
Symptom:
P0440-GENERAL EVAP SYSTEM FAILURE
When Monitored and Set Condition:
P0440-GENERAL EVAP SYSTEM FAILURE
When Monitored: Engine Running. Fuel Level greater than 12%. Ambient Temperature
between 4°C and 32°C (39°F and 89°F)
Set Condition: The PCM does not see the NVLD switch close during the medium/large
leak test. The PCM will then increase the vacuum supply to the EVAP system by
increasing flow through the EVAP Purge valve. If the switch does not close with an
increase in vacuum, an error is detected. Two Trip Fault.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
GOOD TRIP EQUAL TO ZERO
VISUAL AND PHYSICAL INSPECTION
EVAP PURGE SOLENOID VACUUM SUPPLY INSPECTION
EVAP PURGE SOLENOID STUCK CLOSED
NVLD SWITCH OPERATION
(Z1) GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN
NVLD ASSEMBLY
(K107) NVLD SWITCH SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN
EVAPORATIVE EMISSION LEAK DETECTION
PCM
PCM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the quick response! Well, looks like the place to start is the EVAP purge solenoid, both error codes have that in common and it's not expensive and easy enough to get to, sound right to you?
 

·
Woober Goobers!
Joined
·
50,457 Posts
That's your best option unless you want to drop the gas tank!
 

·
Woober Goobers!
Joined
·
50,457 Posts
So any progress on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Not yet. I ordered the purge solenoid on Thursday, and it happens to be from a warehouse just outside of Houston, it didn't make it out before hurricane Harvey hit. That and with Labor Day weekend coming up, looks like it'll be a couple of weeks, I'll be sure to update this post once I have replaced the part and driven the distance it usually takes to trigger the fault ... let's see what happens.
 

·
Woober Goobers!
Joined
·
50,457 Posts
Sounds good. Hope it solves your problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I received the part today and plan to replace it by the weekend, got a question though: I can't quite tell or see how it connects to the firewall (2004 2.7L Intrepid), do you happen to know if there is a bracket or something that it slides on to? Not finding anything in the FSM or online, and since it's right by the brake fluid reservoir I don't want to yank on the old part the wrong way and slip and damage the brake lines or the brake fluid reservoir itself.

It seems like I need to pull up on the old part some way to dislodge it from the firewall, there may be a clip on the firewall bracket that keeps the canister in place and needs to be pushed in/out...? I tried to post a link to the part, but the forum won't let me, need to have 10 posts first it tells me. So here is the part number "Airtex 2N1065", the second link in Google search has good pictures of it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,960 Posts
Most parts attached to brackets like that latch onto the bracket. A blade of the bracket slips into a pair of slots on the part, and latches to a recess on the part. If so, it's usually a matter of shoving a smaller blade up in the slot to unlatch it and slide the part off the bracket. Or can you get to the screws mounting the bracket to the firewall or whatever it is attached to and remove the part and the bracket as a unit? Once that's done, you can examine it more closely off the car to see how to separate the part from the bracket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I didn't see any screws for the bracket, they are probably behind the cylinder, so I figured I'll probably have to get a little screwdriver or something in there and unlatch the canister. Thanks, will update this post again when it's replaced and has a couple hundred miles on it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Well, I replaced the purge canister, but unfortunately that didn't do it, the P0440 and P0441 codes returned again. And just like before, it came on when I started the engine after the gas tank was down to about 2/3 full. I gotta think that has something to do with it, the code always returns after about 100 miles of fill up and only when the engine is first started. And come to think of it, just about every time it has been after having driven about 25 miles (mix of HWY and Stop/Go traffic) and when I then parked the car for about 8 hours.

Anything else to try with basic tools that doesn't involve much labor or cost?
 

·
Woober Goobers!
Joined
·
50,457 Posts
Either a line leak or the NVLD. Neither is an easy fix.

NVLD requires dropping the gas tank to replace. It's on top of the gas tank. NVLD is probably well over $200.

If there's no performance issues and just the code....I'd live with it myself. The decision is yours.

Unless you're in a state with emissions testing....then you're fooked!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yeah, I do need to get emission testing done, but at least not until next June :) I guess one last question, in researching the issue I came across 'smoke tests', which I had never heard of before. Is that something worthwhile to have done to rule out a line leak?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,960 Posts
If a leaking line could cause this problem, you could pay a shop to do a smoke test (I think they cost maybe $100), or you can make your own smoke generator using a new, empty gallon paint can and vinyl tubing from Lowes and a fish aquarium air pump, incense sticks, and a small piece of floral foam from Walmart. I did that to find an evap. line leak on my wife's Buick. I can provide photos and details if interested.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
or you can make your own smoke generator using a new, empty gallon paint can and vinyl tubing from Lowes and a fish aquarium air pump, incense sticks, and a small piece of floral foam from Walmart. I did that to find an evap. line leak on my wife's Buick. I can provide photos and details if interested.
Do I need to pick up a tie-dye t-shirt or two before I begin this journey?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Think I am going to live with it for now as is. By the way, forgot to mention in case others come across this thread, removal of the canister was actually much easier than I thought, there thankfully was no clip holding it in place (would have been a major pain trying to get to it with any kind of tool), it basically just popped out when I pulled up on it after I removed the electrical connector.

Thanks again for the help, appreciate it!
 

·
Woober Goobers!
Joined
·
50,457 Posts
Far Out Man!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Hi, I have a 2004 Intrepid 2.7L, with about 108K miles on it that I purchased a couple thousand miles ago. Seeing a strange but consistent/predictable issue, hoping somebody has in idea what may be the cause.

  • About once a week, the check engine light comes on and it is usually code P0441 (Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge Flow), and/or sometimes P0440 (EVAP system is not working correctly).
  • This only happens once the gas tank fuel level goes down to between 2/3 and 1/2 full (at which point I have driven 100 to 150 miles after fill up).
  • I then clear the code (using OBD2 app) when I fill up the tank, which I usually do when gas is down to about 1/3 to 1/4 full.
  • The engine light / code does not appear again until the gas tank fuel level goes again down to about 1/2 or a little more full.
An interesting note: The engine light only comes to stay on when I first start the car, never while I am driving. Not sure if that is the norm for engine lights coming/staying on due to fault, I would imagine it would come on while driving as well when the system detects a fault.

I have checked the vaccum related hoses in the engine compartment and the PCV valve, no obivous leaks or issues found, and have replaced the gas cap. Best I can figure is that once the air / vaccum level in the gas tank hits a certain level, it triggers the fault, but have no idea what then could be the offending part that needs fixing or replacement.

Any similiar experiences w/solution or ideas anyone? Thanks!

P.S. I realize there are a number of threads already regarding this EVAP fault code, and I have looked through them all, have not been able to find one yet that helps narrow down this particular issue.
I have a 2004 Intrepid with the 2.7. I have the same code P 0440. I had the purge valve solenoid replaced,replaced the gas cap and the light came back on after reboot. I think it’s the canister. I’ve heard you have to drop the tank to get to the canister? If so I’ll live with it. If it’s easier to access I could do it. I don’t have emissions in my county and the car runs fine. I just rechecked the codes it’s still P0440. Hope u r able to get yours fixed.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top