[pt500]

Some thoughts on the large lateral link bolt, since there were previous posts here and on other Chrysler car goups on people trying to find them. I think all this is right, but please correct any mistakes.

The now discontinued (4) rear lateral link bolts are metric class 10.9 M14 x 2.0 - 270mm (a really big bolt). Now very hard to find. Sometimes they are rusted on the shaft and so should be replaced. It is obviously a critical part and you don't want to junk your LH car because you can't find a bolt.

Mopar Part Numbers:
6502389 (original parts catalog number):
Supersession(s): 06502389; 6506115AA

or ACDelco p/n 45G7006

These same bolts were also used on some tractors and heavy equipment and show up in their parts lists under a New Holland p/n 87363478 (expensive, like $80 I think).

My bolts were in good shape, but of course I should have bought spares when Rockauto and others had the ACDelco bolts for $10.

While Mopar and ACDelco have both discontinued these, a few Mopar dealers are still showing availability (I spent an hour recently Googling the part numbers). However, it is possible if you email or call, you'll find out there are actually none in stock (the dealer websites are terrible about showing what's actually in stock or orderable). But I suspect there is a box of them somewhere on the back of a dusty dealer's shelf.

Of course if you can still find a rust-free LH car at a junkyard, that is probably the lowest-cost source for the bolts. The inner one next to the gas tank on the driver's side is the easiest to pull; the ones in the spindle are more likely to be held more firmly, and the inner one on the passenger's side may also be easily pullable if the interfering gas tank is gone. Obviously if needed use PB Blaster or similar and tap out with a big brass drift punch and small sledge/mallet or (easier) a brass-head hammer. (BTW Amazon has a good 20 oz. brass head hammer in stock now for $20; most hardware stores don't anymore). May also need a smaller drift punch to push the bolt through. You may want to put a sacrificial M14 nut on the end to prevent hitting the bolt off-center and distorting the end threads and having to grind/file those down. To prevent this don't whack on the bolt; just tap it firmly, alternating with turning the bolt head back and forth to break any light rust. Then obviously check for any deep rust pitting. Clean the bolts well and use anti-seize on the shafts when installing.

One creative alternative mentioned in another thread is using class 10.9 M14-2.0 threaded rod (with washers and nuts on both ends obviously), which is available from some online and local fastener vendors like Fastenal - I think the new high inflation cost would be about $30 per length, with three rods cut from the available 1m lengths . (Cut long enough for nuts & washers on each end; and cut with some sacrificial M14 nuts installed to turn off and help clean up the cut edges; then sand the burrs). Often, only the two bolts in the spindle will be badly rusted and need to be replaced.

However, another possible cheaper alternative I thought of is to use a British/SAE Grade 8 9/16"-12 x 10-1/2" bolt (dimensions comparison beloIw) or else Grade B7 9/16"-12 threaded rod (Fastenal has the B7 rod). With the rod, the cost would be about $15 per length, with three cut from a three-foot length; or they also have six foot length where you can cut four for about $18 per length (with two free extras). You can check if you have a local Fastenal store or other industrial fastener supplier that will sell retail and save on shipping.

Here's a website comparison of Grade 8 bolt strength (105 kpsi yield) to B7 threaded rod (130 kpsi), so I think it should be strong enough (any thoughts?). Not sure if any threaded rod comes in Grade 8 like bolts or just B7.

GRADE	ASTM A193 B7 (Chromium Molybdenum)	GRADE 8 (Heat Treated After Threading)
TENSILE STRENGTH	125,000 PSI minimum 1,100°F tempering temp	150,000 PSI minimum
YIELD STRENGTH	105,000 PSI minimum	130,000 PSI minimum
ROCKWELL HARDNESS	C26-C32	C33-C39

Yes, online info indicates the Grade 8 10-1/2" bolts do exist, and are hard to find; but probably not as hard as the discontinued bolt. Most of the online fastener stores don't have the 9/16" bolts in that long length, but here is one that carries it (currently out of stock, generic photo is of shorter bolt):

9/16-12 X 10-1/2 HEX CAP SCREW GR 8 PLAIN

www.zieglerbolt.com

I believe some local tractor or heavy equipment supply stores may also have them.

The 9/16" bolt is only 0.3mm (0.01") larger in diameter than the M14 bolt, and 10-1/2" long is 267mm. At the bottom of this post are some photos of the 9/16" bolt going through a lateral link and the spindle. However you need to use a round wire brush to get out all the rust from the spindle hole or give it some light passes with a rat-tail file until the 9/16" bolt slides smoothly through. Then clean it out and use anti-seize on the bolt shaft. You also obviously need to use Grade 8 9/16" nuts and washers.

My good local independent hardware store only has the Grade 8 up to about 9" (the one shown in the photos below) but I am going to go to the tractor supply stores sometime to see if anyone has the 10-1/2" length bolts in stock or can order them.

By the way, the same thing applies to the rear strut knuckle pinch bolt. If you have to remove the spindle to carefully drill out a snapped bolt (procedure described by members in some previous posts) and can't find metric class 10.9 M10 bolt/nuts/washers of the proper length (75 or 80mm?), you could use a Grade 8 3/8" coarse thread bolt and nut/washers since 3/8" dia.= 9.53mm. Photo below is of:
-intact Mopar removed pinch bolt, derusted (yes, had the usual ordeal of propane torch, PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, electric impact, cheater bar lightly back and forth, but also eventually used CRC Freeze Off spray instead of last resort dry ice [neat stuff])
-hardware store class 10.9 M10 x 1.50 x 60mm bolt
-Monroe class 10.9 AK53 replacment pinch bolt (two per kit, from Rockauto or even Amazon sometimes)
-Grade 8 3/8" course thread 3" long bolt w/ washers and nuts (thankfully did not have to drill out pinch bolt and use).

Notice that the Monroe bolt is longer than the Mopar bolt, but has a slightly reduced unthreaded diameter, probably so it can thread in knuckles of slightly different sizes and not interfere with the threads. The thread engagement with the Monroe bolt is OK, because it goes all the way through the knuckle whereas the Mopar bolt doesn't quite reach the end of the knuckle threads. I used the Monroe rather than relying on the hardware store bolt. Be aware that for these smaller bolts some class 10.9 or Grade 8 hardware store bolts may not be the best quality (lots of stuff of varying quality from the PRC). If you want to be sure of strenth, pay a bit more and get them from Napa (Rockford bolts?) or a good fastener supplier like Fastenal. Lots of info on varying bolt quality from the PRC online.

Below photos of the possible 9/16" bolt substitute fiting through the lateral link and spindle, and also washer/nut comparison with Mopar M14 & 9/16." (BTW the rusty trailing link is gone; all stuff was replaced with closeout Carquest/Moog parts from Rockauto and KYB struts).

 

[Firem]

Fastenal Industrial Supplies, OEM Fasteners, Safety Products & More

Fastenal is the largest fastener distributor in North America. Shop our huge selection of OEM, MRO, construction, industrial, and safety products.

www.fastenal.com

This is my solution for the long bolt.
Numerous 300M’s have had this in place for years with no issues

 

[pt500]

Fastenal Industrial Supplies, OEM Fasteners, Safety Products & More

Fastenal is the largest fastener distributor in North America. Shop our huge selection of OEM, MRO, construction, industrial, and safety products.

www.fastenal.com

This is my solution for the long bolt.
Numerous 300M’s have had this in place for years with no issues

From what I have read before, the OEMs spec class 10.9 or Grade 8 on supension and steering parts for safety. For example, if Chrysler had used class 8.8 bolts on the inner tie rod bolts there probably would have been a lot more serious accidents than there already were. Class 10.9 and Grade 8 bolts are made of higher quality material, heat treated very well, including treatment to the threads to resist fatigue cracking.

Class 8.8 metric bolts are approximatley equivalent in strength properties to ASTM Grade 5, and metric Class 10.9 to Grade 8. Minimum Grade 5 yield strength is 81 kpsi versus 130 kpsi for Grade 8 (yield spec is bending, tensile spec is failure). However, the bigger concern I'd have with an 8.8 or Grade 5 bolt in suspension applications is deterioration due to rust in areas of higher humidity, frequent rain, and winter road salt. A 10 year old car from the low-humidy dry western states looks a lot different underneath than one from the midwest. If the bolt is pitted due to rust, you want all the strength you can get. Rust-caused failure of one of these bolts will likely cause loss of control. Class 10.9 and Grade 8 bolts also usually have better corrosion resistant coatings (gold chromate? on the Grade 8, something equivalent on 10.9). (BTW the thin trailing links on the 1st Gen cars are also a very serious rust concern with breakage, and need to be inspected/replaced if original.)

The high strength threaded rod doesn't seem ideal inside the bushing sleeves, but if I couldn't find the 10-1/2" Grade 8 9/16" bolt, I'd consider using the 10.9 threaded rod or even B7 threaded rod at 105 kpsi minimum yield before a class 8.8 or Grade 5 bolt at 81 kpsi (the ultimate tensile strength differences are similarly significant). Another thing to consider is quality control. The bolts and rods are supposed to meet ASTM stregth standards, but the higher grade is going to give you a better safety factor in case of manufacturing variance from ASTM specs (especially with imported product).

Here's a good basic article I've seen linked on a lot of sites on Grade 8 versus Grade 5 in automotive applications:

https://www.rockcrawler.com/2003/04/fasteners-making-the-grade-a-technical-discussion/

 

[peva]

Enjoying the discussion...

 

[Firem]

Agreed that the lessor grade hardware is less desirable however I believe it is an acceptable “risk” for the application. I suspect if “driven like it was stolen” at Baja or a pothole ridden city there might be a slight concern.
“We” that still own and drive these vehicles would never use them in the extremes that would stress the suspension to the engineered design limit.
Never considered threaded rod as an alternative. Concerns of corrosion “welding” and maybe even wearing of areas it passes thru took it off my plate.
(Enjoying then pop corn Bill?)

 

[pt500]

I Googled the issue (Gr 5 vs Gr 8 automotive) and apparently it is quite the controversy on several car sites (ha!). Agreed that if someone is aware of what they are doing making the substitution, not going to be doing any performance-type driving, gets a quality bolt (a potential issue - see below) and willing to check the rear suspension periodically (especially in rust-prone areas), a metric 8.8 or Gr 5 bolt would probably be fine. Also personally I wouldn't sell the car to someone else without letting them know about it. In thinking more about this, I do wonder what a mechanic would think if he saw threaded rod in there.

I missed that 280mm 8.8 bolt on Fastenal when I did the online bolt search. I believe the New Holland 10.9 bolt is available through the tractor & heavy equipment guys, here's one to check availability (it goes in a backhoe, for example). $37 plus shipping instead of ~$80 at another site. Not sure if they sell small quantities retail to anyone, but if not, like I wrote, a local tractor/farm supplier may be able to get them with the p/n (lots of those stores like John Deere in the midwest farming areas):
New Holland/Case: SCREW, Part # 87363478
New Holland BOLT,Hex, M14 x 2 x 270mm, Cl 10.9 (87363478)

Part Number	87363478
Messick's Price	$37.18
Stock Quantity	0
Weight	0.70 lbs

The bolt quality thing is also a real issue with the stuff coming from China and India - huge amount of online info on this (I dealt with it in the past at work). That's why I used the Monroe 10.9 pinch bolt rather than the hardware store 10.9 bolt to replace the rusty Mopar pinch bolt. You can even tell the quality with the Monroe bolt - distinct raised printing on the bolt head (10.9 and a circled "M"), chamfer to the reduced diameter section (an engineer or tech designed it to not interfere with the threads when tightening), good corrosion-resistant finish. The hardware store 10.9 bolt head has stamped indented printing (10.9 and "JH" [Jin-Her, China]) and some type of silver plating. You can check the bolt head markings online to determine the manufacturers, just a few listed here:
Fastenerdata - Head Markings - Fastener Specifications

By the way, Monroe also makes the serrated-shaft big fat front strut mount bolts, Rockauto and Amazon sometimes has them, it has another AK number that I'll check (two per pack).

 

[pt500]

Pictures of Monroe AK42 front lower strut mount bolt kit & head stamp:

 

[Firem]

No doubt “Quality” of hardware is an issue. Head markings in addition to grade also indicate manufacturers. In my past profession, Service Manager of a fire apparatus manufacturer fasteners were a critical part of our service. Aerial Ladders are bolted to the turntable and torque box. Annual inspection includes fastener inspection and torque checks. At one point NEW units were coming out of the factory with “Suspect Bolts”. Fasteners with suspect head markings were replaced with proof hardware. Suspect fasteners sent out for testing often failed minimum standards.
End of the day being aware of what we are doing and materials we use we are likely far superior than most of the weekend worrier mochanics that make You Tube repair videos

 

[peva]

No doubt “Quality” of hardware is an issue. Head markings in addition to grade also indicate manufacturers. In my past profession, Service Manager of a fire apparatus manufacturer fasteners were a critical part of our service. Aerial Ladders are bolted to the turntable and torque box. Annual inspection includes fastener inspection and torque checks. At one point NEW units were coming out of the factory with “Suspect Bolts”. Fasteners with suspect head markings were replaced with proof hardware. Suspect fasteners sent out for testing often failed minimum standards.
End of the day being aware of what we are doing and materials we use we are likely far superior than most of the weekend worrier mochanics that make You Tube repair videos

I think it was like 30 to 45 years ago (ahh - seems like only yesterday! 🤣 ) there was a huge problem in industry because people died and millions of $$ were lost on failed Chinese junk counterfeit bolts used in critical applications. IIRC, the one that got everybody's attention was a piping connection on the outlet of a jet fuel storage tank that failed with disastrous results. I thought the lesson's learned, deaths, and lawsuits that came out of that had stopped that crap, but maybe only from sellers into the industrial supply houses, not the crap aftermarket auto parts market. The love of money . . .


Can find some interesting articles in this search:

Brave Search

Search the web privately ...

search.brave.com

 

[pt500]

Apparently, it is still a problem with subpar hardware not up to the minimum ASTM standards (obviously especially at the retail hardware stores) but the USA-made graded hardware is getting harder to find. And not all the industrial fastener websites list their sourcing - since they may be buying form several wholesalers. Of course engineers and technicians just contractually spec what they require on a project for safety. For the average guy in a small town who wants some quality bolts, I'm not sure if the Rockford stuff at Napa is still USA, some posts say no, and they don't have anywhere near as extensive a selection as they (and Carquest) used to in the store bins, a bit more online.

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=hex%20head%20bolts%20rockford%20&referer=v2

I'm sure the local Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace, Tractor Supply and most independent hardware stores just have the China or India made hardware like the "JH" 10.9 bolt I got at my local independent (there were a few different Asia manufacture codes on the bolt heads mixed together in the bins).

Years ago, some of the local industrial suppliers like Grainger wouldn't sell small retail quantities of hardware or anything else at the walk-in stores (I used my employer account number and paid exact cash), but you can order a lot online now (shipping usually high). We have a local Fastenal store tucked away in an industrial park, but I haven't checked if they now sell retail or just tell you to go to the website and set up an account.

Unfortunately, outsourcing so much industrial and consumer parts manufacturing to Asia has been terrible for the US economy and blue collar jobs for people with a high school education. People have been been injured and probably killed by PRC parts (Tiawan-made may still be decent). Such as the recent Harbor Freight jackstands collapsing due to bad welds (even their warranty replacements). I had my own bad experience years ago with a Craftsman China floor jack I thought was still USA-made. Thankfully I just got a sore knee out of it for many weeks. Carquest used to carry great stuff and they were good folks, but my nearby locally-owned Carquest store closed down when Advance Auto bought them and wrecked the company (my pet peeve).

 

[pt500]

Important update on the four hard to find M14-2.0 x 270mm lateral link bolts:

I got to thinking, all the other shorter metric Mopar suspension bolts I've seen on the car are stamped metric Class 10.9 strength on the heads, as are many other car's suspension bolts, but am I SURE the lateral link bolts are the expensive Class 10.9 heavy equipment/tractor bolts? (Mopar Parts Catalog and previous ACDelco listing didn't say.) To get a good photo, I pulled the easily-removed upper one again, cleaned it and then used a Scotch Brite pad to gradually take off the surface rust and bolt head finish, and this is what I found (photos below) - head stamp is actually "M (underscore) 9.8" - one strength class below 10.9, and one above 8.8. (Like ASTM Grade 7, metric Class 9.8 bolts are much less common in the catalogs and stores than class 8.8 and 10.9.) Yield strength specs online are 660 MPa for 8.8, 720 MPa for 9.8, and 830 MPa for 10.9.

So that lends more support for possibly using the Class 8.8 $9 M14-2.0 x 280mm bolt FireM linked from Fastenal (when back in stock) and maybe from other industrial suppliers - 8.8 yield strength is 92% of 9.8. And since Grade 5 is approximately equal in yield strength to class 8.8, you could also possibly use a SAE 9/16"- 12 x 10.5" Grade 5 bolt, 2 washers and nut, which might be easier to find at the local farm/tractor/heavy equipment supply stores. Again, being aware of small risk of stretching in hard driving. Moral of the story: always check assumptions. Several more tips below.

By the way, as has been posted on the site a few times before, per the FSM the bolt heads on all four of the bolts must be in the original orientation to avoid the possibility of puncturing the plastic gas tank in a rear end collision (a note explaining this is in all the later factory service manuals). Especially if using the replacement Fastenal 280mm bolt without cutting it to orignal 270mm. To get clearance for the the top bolt to come out on the passenger side, follow the procedures in the manuals and in previous posts here to slowly/carefully lower the crossmember a bit (while supporting the gas tank) just enough to get clearance (not hard to do).

Don't forget to replace all four washers under the lateral link bolt heads and nuts to spread the load on the ends of the bushing sleeves. Again you can use widely available 9/16" Grade 8 washers if the old ones are badly pitted/rusted, or else new M14 10.9 nuts and washers are available also at some local auto stores (NAPA) and hardware stores, and online.

By the way, the replacement Carquest/Moog adjustable lateral links themselves that I got several years ago from Rockauto were much thicker and heavier than stock (photo below). As has been posted here before, you can replace all four with the adjustable ones to be able to adjust both rear toe and camber (make sure to tell your alignment guy) or just leave as stock and buy two fixed and two adjustable (to set toe only). Obviously set the lengths of the adjustable ones exactly to the links you remove to minimize needed alignment. The only minor concern I had about using the thick adjustable ones in the front position as well is that there is less clearance between it and the sway bar if you were to hit a monsterous pothole (?).

Also, the end of gas tank support strap next to where it bolts to the rear sway bar bushing support on the driver's side may interfere just barely with getting the top bolt out on that side. May have to loosen the bolts for the lower sway bar bushing support, or if those are rust-seized, bend the support down slightly with padded vise grips for clearance.

Like the front cradle bushing bolts, you need to patiently go through all the rust-seized bolt procedures to loosen those rear sway bar mounting bolts to avoid breaking off their mounting nuts which are welded to the frame. Also, replacement 1st Gen rear sway bar bushings sometimes show up on on ebay or maybe from some online Mopar dealers (p/n 4601873 or 04601873), since I haven't seen any aftermarket ones like the front ones from Moog or ACDelco. Since they are a simple shape, in a pinch replacements might be able to be be fabricated from solid blocks of hard rubber or perhaps by modifying one of the many poly Energy Suspension brand sway bar bushings.

Note that the front sway bar bushings come in at least two close bar daimeters, so measure your bar near where they pass through the bushings, using calipers if you can (or clean and wire brush and wrap with tape or paper and calculate diameter exactly from the measured circumfrence).

Since the metal on the gas tank support is not thick and subject to rust, it is a good idea to remove it (supporting the gas tank at the front), de-rust it as much as possible and paint with Rustoleum, or else just wire brush the heavy rust off and paint with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer & paint. Or use one of the several "rust coverters" that stabilize rust, then paint. You can do the same on the thicker crossmember in place without having to remove it and the link bolts and having to support the gas tank, but you need to protect the plastic gas tank from any wire brushing with layers of duct tape. Also you're obviously doing it on your back and it's messy (I don't mind). It is also worth it when replacing the trailing link to derust and paint the front and rear trailing link brackets (hangers), and clean/derust their mounting bolts.

As I recall, there is a previous thread here saying that one of the two brands of replacement gas tank supports from Rockauto may not have fit quite right, so you can search for that thread; not sure if it was 1st Gen or 2nd.

I may post some more notes/tips & photos I took of previous suspension work sometime later when I have more time for those people still keeping your cars alive (minor medical issues slowing me down). Rockauto still gets in new-old-stock decent quality "daily-driver" OEM quality suspension parts from various suppliers (Moog/Carquest, TRW, Spicer, ACDelco, Gabriel, Monroe, etc.), though some of the parts may have very minor surface rust. Don't use the parts they have listed as "economy."

 

[peva]

... The only minor concern I had about using the thick adjustable ones in the front position as well is that there is less clearance between it and the sway bar if you were to hit a monsterous pothole (?)...

That reminds me: Our cars came from the factory with rear lateral link being the adjustable one and the front lateral link being fixed length. While the FSMs show them that way, all the parts pdf's show them reversed - front adjustable, rear fixed. They're interchangeable, but I always thought that was interesting - apparently someone at the factory had a strong enough opinion for choosing one way or the other at different times - perhaps service people found the adjustment was easier in the rear position - maybe for what you pointed out about the front one bring close to the seay bar. I understand what you were saying about the aftermarket adjustable one being fatter. Until you brought that up about the front one being close to the sway bar, I couldn't figure out why someone at the factory felt it was important enough to swap their positions. I don't know when the change was made - possibly before the first 2nd gen rolled out the door. I know my '98 and '99 Concordes had them the way all the FSMs show them. I also never saw one in a junk yard with the adjustable in front/fixed in rear.

I've noticed in general that Chrysler very seldom changed the illustrations in the parts pdf's to correct errors or even to reflect design changes. Such was the case on the lateral link discrepancy - all year parts pdf's show them backwards. (In contrast, FSMs seemed to be kept very up to date and accurate with changes.)

I just checked the 1st gen FSM and parts pff. Both show fix on front, adjustable on rear. So 1st gen FSM and parts pdf were correct; for 2nd gen, all year FSMs were correct, all year parts pdf's were wrong. So apparently they just screwed up in the first 2nd gen parts pdf and never bothered to correct it in the pdf's for subsequent years.

LH trivia.

 

[pt500]

When I looked at the illustration in the FSM when I put the thick adjustable link in the front, it looked like if the spindle/knuckle rises and falls quickly when hitting a deep pothole or bump at speed, the stabilizer bar link should raise the sway bar end enough since the link is attached to the bottom of the strut (which of course is sleeve mounted mounted to the knuckle).

So I haven't worried about it (much). But if the sway bar link bushings got very badly worn or deteriorated I was thinking there is a small chance the thicker link could hit the sway bar. In any case, if I had to do it all over again I may have just gotten the Moog fixed front link (likely thinner) since I never noticed any uneven rear tire wear, and the original factory links were all four actually at the same hole center-to-center distance when I removed them (377mm [?] written in my notes). That was after a few previous mechanic alignments long ago; so the rear toe probably never changed significantly, even with parts wear.

Having the two adjustable links would be an an advantage in a minor accident if the underside unibody frame rails at the front trailing link hanger or cross member got slightly bent and you needed to adjust the camber. That's also I why I was thinking that you don't want the cross member and also the front/rear trailing link hangers to get badly rusted including around that sleeve that the top bolt goes through in the cross member (wire brush and paint them all). Since the metal is fairly thick, the cross member is probably still servicable on most cars if wire brushed well and painted (but I'd tap all around with a small hammer and screwdriver to check for rust holes). If not, a junkyard replacement is possible if it could still be found and safely removed (or could let the yard guys do it for a little more money).

If taken to a shop for alignment the two adjustable links could be confusing because their computer tells them only rear toe is adjustable. So it would be good to explain it to them with a copy of the picture from the FSM. Years back I decided to just buy my own camber gauge and toe plates (used with greased metal plates under the tires) for about the same price as one alignment. So I can mess around with it for hours on a weekend to try to get it right in the front - the rear Moog links have never needed to be adjusted. As people may remember, there also used to be many articles in the car magazines like Car Craft with other methods to do your own alignments with various purchased gauges (even optical ones) or just setting up stretched strings on jackstands, etc. Newer cars may be more complicated to adjust (don't know).

Years ago there was also a great small shop near me run by an exacting guy who only did alignments and would explain everything to customers (including the worn suspension parts, which he said was very common since people didn't want to pay hundreds of dollars for that work). Of course he charged more. Most shops now just do it as a low-cost sideline (often with a low-cost coupon price) in order to recommend suspension and steering work. But the shops are hit or miss for several reasons, probably since now there are so many different types of suspensions and adjustment methods, and also having to deal with all the rusted adjustment threads/nuts/sleeves and the worn suspension and steering parts.

 

[peva]

Good posts.

I went to junk yards to get four additional adjustable factory lateral links for my (then) two Concordes. It wasn't because of any concerns about sway bar interference with the larger diameter bars of certain brands that I got factory (vs. aftermarket new) ones, as I did not realize the potential problem that you bring up, which may certainly be valid. It was because a few years ago, it was easy to find these parts in almost any junk yard as they are the same on every 2nd gen LH, and using the factory parts would eliminate the risk of potential unknown issues of fit or quality with aftermarket parts, plus the prices on the aftermarket parts were a lot more than the junk yard parts - and I'm cheap. As we all are acutely aware, it's not so easy to find used parts of any type for these cars anymore.

ALSO - you mention corrosion. The adjustment threads on the adjustable lateral links that came on my cars and the ones scavenged from a junk yard were corroded to the point of pretty much being bound up - on more than one, I think a shop would have been unable to break them loose without removing and disassembling them - and most would justifiably charge a pretty penny to do that - most would probably just refuse to do it, some would have not mentioned the problem and be happy to just leave you assuming they made the adjustments. So in the process of installing the parts from the junk yard, I completely disassembled the four adjustable links and chemically and mechanically got the threads cleaned back down to bare metal, then completely worked a good grade of marine grease onto/into the threads, and re-assembled, adjusted to original lengths, and installed them. When I took the cars to the alignment shop, I explained that all four links were adjustable, that I expected them to bring rear toe and camber into spec, and I specifically mentioned that I had disassembled and cleaned and greased the threads (in case they were tempted, after taking the car off the alignment rack, to make up a story that they were corroded and couldn't be adjusted, defeating the purpose of everything that I had done and totally wasting the $65 (or whatever it was) cost of the alignment. I always get the shop's agreement before handing them the keys to provide me complete 'before' and 'after' printouts (a few years ago, it was hard to find shops that would do that - over the years, it's become almost standard procedure I guess mostly due to customers more commonly insisting on it).

I have to wonder if anybody besides you and me are reading these posts. 😁

 

[Firem]

“I have to wonder if anybody besides you and me are reading these posts”
At least 3 of us read these posts.
Cheers

 

[LUNAT1C]

“I have to wonder if anybody besides you and me are reading these posts”
At least 3 of us read these posts.
Cheers

4! I almost didn't since it's in the 1st gen section, but the title made me think it might be worth reading up on as I frequently inspect factory fasteners at yards to see if any are worth getting (or easy enough to get without breaking). I have not gotten any pinch bolts or long bolts due to the well-documented history of rust issues, and the fact these cars have likely spent their lives in and around Detroit/Toledo/Flint/Windsor.

I have mismatched two bolts on my M that I want to replace and I may just take this information to replace all of the ones on the car now with new instead of trying 20+ y/o "Detroit specials" (rust city). One of them is a front sway bar bushing bolt that I replaced last year after I had cross-threaded the original (couldn't save the bolt, but luckily I was able to repair the cradle threads, bolt from Menards is annoyingly a different head size) and the other is a caliper slide bolt that I had snapped in 2009 when replacing the original front rotors and pads. Also has a different head size, got it in a "kit" from Autozone back then. Both bolts are fine so far, no sign of weakness or rust, just annoying when I forget and have to go find the the socket needed for them when service time comes around. That was a pain when I did the brakes again in 2013 and lived in an apartment, most of my tools were across the parking lot and upstairs and I didn't remember the head size difference until I had the wheels off.

But I digress... lots of good information here!

 

[pt500]

Good posts.
I have to wonder if anybody besides you and me are reading these posts. 😁

“I have to wonder if anybody besides you and me are reading these posts”
At least 3 of us read these posts.
Cheers

I think the thread shows 454 "views" so far (?). The administrator can probably tell how the website is doing generally with views, but I assume lots of people with old cars probably do regularly Google stuff like "+Intrepid/Vision/Concord/LHS/300M +part name" when they run into an issue, like trying to find info on stuff like the hard-to-find lateral link bolt. Then the applicable pages on this site, allpar, and the other Chrysler sites come right up, especially if they do a limited website Google search (site:dodgeintrepid.net + search terms). I read that Internet data shows most people searching online rarely register on websites, and rarely post on active threads anywhere - they just look up archived info as needed, like we used to use the local library.

There were a lot of LH cars made, and in the low-rust states many with regular maintenance are still out there. There are a few I still see in my small town. But depending on the area (rain/humidity/winter road salt), without periodically cleaning/painting/coating the suspension and underside, rust is the car-killer. Except for the fanatic classic muscle car guys, I've never met anyone like me who gets under their car to do that messy preventative work on their back.

By the way, speaking of websites, I recall the old NPR radio "Car Guys" Tom and Ray, who had their own repair shop, used to say that after the old kids paddle toy with the elastic cord and red rubber ball, the Internet was the biggest time-waster ever invented.

 

[pt500]

4! I almost didn't since it's in the 1st gen section, but the title made me think it might be worth reading up on as I frequently inspect factory fasteners at yards to see if any are worth getting (or easy enough to get without breaking). I have not gotten any pinch bolts or long bolts due to the well-documented history of rust issues, and the fact these cars have likely spent their lives in and around Detroit/Toledo/Flint/Windsor.

Back when many LH cars were still in the junkyards I should have done that and gotten all sorts of bolts/hardware/parts, including trim pieces.

One good thing is that there are a few good hardware suppliers online now for replacement graded metric and ASTM bolts. Some NAPA stores (Rockford bolts) and a few surving Carquest local stores still have bolts/nuts/washers. I have a great independent harware store nearby (a rarity anymore) that still has a big bolt selection. And like I mentioned before, the local farm and tractor supply stores in farming areas are worth checking also for good large bolts. Autozone, O'Reily and Advance Auto don't carry many bolts in the store (more online), but in the hardware isle is a handy board display where you can thread the old bolts in to determine the specs by diameter, metric or standard thread pitch, and rulers to measure length (measured from under the head to the end).

I have one of those cheap thread gage sets with four or five aluminum discs with holes to determine the standard or metric diameter, and threads on the side to match the pitch (Harbor Freight, Amazon, ebay probably still have them). Or there are more expensive quality steel thread pitch only sets that fold up like a feeler gauge.

I salvage un-pitted surface-rusted bolts by soaking a couple days in Evapo-Rust (but expensive) or I make my own solution with non-toxic citric acid (cooking "sour salt") - formulas online. Naval Jelly (phosphoric acid) will also work, but is messier because you have to wash and wire brush off the resulting crud that forms. After the acids, I scrub/wash in baking soda solution to neutralize the acid, then clean with dish soap. Then use cold gun blue on them (from Walmart hunting isle) for a bit of rust resistance - there are probably other better bolt rustproofing methods online.

 

[peva]

I think the thread shows 454 "views" so far (?). The administrator can probably tell how the website is doing generally with views, but I assume lots of people with old cars probably do regularly Google stuff like "+Intrepid/Vision/Concord/LHS/300M +part name" when they run into an issue, like trying to find info on stuff like the hard-to-find lateral link bolt. Then the applicable pages on this site, allpar, and the other Chrysler sites come right up, especially if they do a limited website Google search (site:dodgeintrepid.net + search terms). I read that Internet data shows most people searching online rarely register on websites, and rarely post on active threads anywhere - they just look up archived info as needed, like we used to use the local library.

There were a lot of LH cars made, and in the low-rust states many with regular maintenance are still out there. There are a few I still see in my small town. But depending on the area (rain/humidity/winter road salt), without periodically cleaning/painting/coating the suspension and underside, rust is the car-killer. Except for the fanatic classic muscle car guys, I've never met anyone like me who gets under their car to do that messy preventative work on their back.

By the way, speaking of websites, I recall the old NPR radio "Car Guys" Tom and Ray, who had their own repair shop, used to say that after the old kids paddle toy with the elastic cord and red rubber ball, the Internet was the biggest time-waster ever invented.

The Car Guys's lawyers were Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe. 🤣

 

[Firem]

Car Guys aka “Click and Clack” the Tappet Brothers
LOL