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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, im back once again with a slight problem. The 1998 concorde is having too much fun in the snow with her 4 new michelins, and its drifting in longer turns. Its pretty strange, but its probably due to the wheelbase length. When i want to drift in my father's car i never accomplish the feat, whereas when i dont want to drift in the concorde it does it anyways.

Yes, im a new snow driver, although ive been driving for a 1 1/2 now. What should i do to keep the concorde from drifting? If i added weight would it help? or if i got the car lowered with an Eibach kit (1" isnt that bad) would that help with stability?

Of course theres some fun in it too...just dont wanna wreck it. My father's car on the other hand...its a good thing i didnt get those tires swapped, the new ones really keep that rear end in place no matter how hard i try.
 

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Are you driving correctly? Please don't take that as an insult. My point is that if you turn the car too sharply and/or turn at too high of a speed, the car can drift. I grew up in lake effect snow country so I've been driving in this crap for about 12 years. I have learned how fast and how sharply I can turn the car without getting into trouble. I can get the car to drift if needed, but if I'm careful than I'm fine.

Also, what Michelines do you have? When I had my Kumho's, it would take little effort for the car to drift in the snow. Now that I have Dunlop Graspics DS-2 snow tires, I can take corners more "aggressively" before the car will drift.

You mentioned your dad's car. What does he drive and what kind of tires does he have?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The tires on the concorde are michelin harmony, ya not the greatest but the tread life is 130,000km. My father drives a 1990 pontiac 6000 FWD, with brand new BF goodrich all season tires in the rear, and worn goodyears up front. His car is relatively light (3050-3100 pounds). I tried to drfit in an empty parking lot with his car, ppl in and out but it wouldnt.

As for my driving, i know what kind of steering i can accomplish in snow and it is far from agressive. When i start to drift its usually on a curve on a road thats covered in snow, all i do is tilt the whell little by little, then all feel is the rear end slipping out. no acceleration, no extra tilt in steering, just constant speed around the curve. Even when making a left or right turn i usually have to correct the vehicle a tad bit. Kinda sucks but its fun in the meantime, havent lost total control...yet.
 

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michelin claims those harmonys are good in the winter, but they still are "All season" tires. It is impossible to have great winter traction with a tire you can use in the summer. These tires must be made hard to withstand wear in the heat of summer. A true winter tire is much better:

Michelin X Ice

I've got these and I haven't even felt the car start to loose grip yet, and I'm an aggressive driver too! :driving:


Also... slow down! I hate people who speed in and around traffic in the middle of winter. NOTE TO PEOPLE WITH 4X4's : Yea you can take off from a red light really fast, but that fancy 4 wheel drive won't help you stop when you're about to cream some poor bastard!
 

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I have the same problem. I find it more when you brake with the car going in to turns and then touching the gas again. Your shifting the weight of the car more from one side or wheel to the other. Basic racing skills :).... As for you sliding. Just slow down plenty before the turn! and then dont touch the gas at all through the turn if you can! Practice makes perfect go to some empty parking lots and practice so you know you will have cointrol. I can be doing 100 (km's ) that is. and start to feel the back end slide around SHARP turns just correct yourself. Practice practice paractice!!
 

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DJDiggler said:
NOTE TO PEOPLE WITH 4X4's : Yea you can take off from a red light really fast, but that fancy 4 wheel drive won't help you stop when you're about to cream some poor bastard!
Acceleration (and driving in deep snow at low speeds) is pretty much the only two places where having AWD or a 4x4 will be to your advantage. With the bonus of the added weight of the SUV, and you now have more friction between the road and tires. Snow tires also increase the coefficient of friction between the tire and the road for increased contact friction.

Unfortunatly the increased weight of an SUV (4x4 or not) means a larger stopping distance. ABS will only reduce your risk of locking up the tires (allowing you to retain some level of steering control of the vehicle). I think a lot of people forget this arguement and assume that their 4x4's make them king of the road.
 

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if your back end is drifting through a turn, either your back brakes are dragging (the tires are trying to lock up), or, you have too much weight in the back (cause it to want to fly out with more force than the front of your car.) usually, this has more to do with worn tires than poor weight balance.

but, in the end, if you feel the car sliding, not in constant contact with the road, you should slow down, and keep it under control... This is something I am learing with a lightweight, 240 hp, 6 speed manual vechile......
 

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michelins are shitty winter tires, and so are goodyears....I have had both and i will never buy either again, they get waay to hard in the cold here, and slide like crayzee....best all seasons i have had are my coopers, and BFG's
 

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alright, micheleins just suck even more, my dad's 2000 cirrus LXI came with some on the back, they have like 90% tread left and they are already coming apart...****in junk. Replacements will be coopers to match the fronts.
 

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FYI BFG is michelins lower class tire, they are made by michelin but badged BFG so they can sell them to people who don't want to pay for a premium tire.
over 5 years off changing tires has taught me that michelin is by far the best tire out there (but you do pay through the nose for them)
 

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well youd never know it. i had them on my neon too, shitty in winter...get rock hard and just slide everywhere like the goodyears.

worse yet tonite, the temp went up from -50 celsius, to -18, to i decided to take my m out for a rip, some douche hit me in like 5 minutes and scratched my paint....so off for an estimate, then an out of pocket settlement.
 
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