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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

First off, thank you for all the advice on here before.


My 97' intrepid died on me on the way to work this morning.

I went to take a right and it stalled right onto a main roadway.

Luckily I was able to get a tow home, but i have no idea where
to start...


any suggestions?

Thanks,
pucking
 

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First off, does it have any engine codes?
Possible culprits:
Crankshaft sensor
Ignition coil block
Fuel pump
Possibly a relay or two
Bad ignition switch
Dead ECU
Out of gas :)

Just to name a few. Good luck!
 

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Check for codes. Look in the howto section.

Probably going to be your cam position sensor.
 

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my guess is also going to be the cam sensor, as long as you have fuel pressure (checked easily by pressing the schrader valve on the fuel rail) and the enigne is trying to crank, I'd guess the cam sensor
 

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Do you get the 55 code?

If your check engine light isn't flashing at all, then you aren't doing it right.

If you only have 55, you can go about this two ways.

1. You can just replace the cam and crank position sensors. It's a pretty good chance that they are your problem. They aren't hard to change out (although the crank position sensor is a little harder to reach).

2. You can diagnose the problem. Check for spark and fuel. If the cam position sensor is bad, you might get one spark on cyl 1, but that's it. No other spark. If you have spark on any plug you check, it's probably a fuel issue.

It just depends on if you have more money or time.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks guys,
I appreciate the help with this, this is my first car and
although i can fix most things, when it comes to cars
well, Im still learning.

Here is my current list:

Possible culprits:
Crankshaft sensor <--- Hard to reach/find - still looking

Ignition coil block <--- Replaced last year

Fuel pump <--- Valve on front fuel line spews when
cranked - i would think its good.

Possibly a relay or two <--- Flipped a couple relays with
wiper/whatever - no change

Bad ignition switch <---do you mean key switch?

Dead ECU <---do you mean dead computer?

Out of gas :) <---At gas prices these days, I've kept her
pretty empty but I found a deal a couple
days ago, it is 3/4 full right now ;)

It sounds like she wants to start but won't and it almost sounds like she isn't
getting any fuel or that there is no combustion going on.

The ignition coil/wires and plugs were all changed last year, she was almost due for an oil change but hasn't had one yet.

The oil doesn't look milky and there is enough oil in her albeit winter oil.

This car has some electrical problems like the daytime running lights
don't work, the radio antenna only works when raining and conversly
the tape player doesn't work when it is wet outside. The rear defogger
is broken and there's a wire in the trunk that will short out the fuses.

Any input would be appreciated, including suggestions to buy a new car...
;)
 

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First off what engine size ? And next thing to check, when you turn the key on, do you hear the fuel pump prime? And here's how-to check for code's:

CHECK ENGINE LIGHT (MIL)

Cycle the ignition key to ON, OFF, ON, OFF, ON within 5 seconds.

Count the number of times the MIL (check engine light) on the instrument panel flashes on and off. The number of flashes represents the trouble code. There is a slight pause between the flashes representing the first and second digits of the code. Longer pauses separate the individual two digit trouble code.

An example of a flashed DTC is as follows:

Lamp flashes 4 times, pauses, and then flashes 6 more times. This indicates a DTC code of 46.

Lamp flashes 5 times, pauses, then flashes 5 more times. This indicates a DTC code of 55. A DTC of 55 will always be the last code to be displayed. This indicates the end of all stored codes.

And location of the Crank Sensor:

The sensor is located on the passengers side of the transmission housing, above the differential housing

And don't give up on your Trep yet!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Update:

Wonderful! Found out what seems to be the problem. A neighbour of mine knows
a mechanic that dropped by after work, we popped off the cam shaft sensor on the
front, cranked the engine and watched as nothing moves below where the sensor
was.

No timing belt?

So now I'm gonna go through the haynes like afine tooth comb to get this replaced,
as well as the water pump.

Looks like my saturday is now booked. ;)
 

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Maybe this will help you !!!

Timing Belt Cover and Seal

REMOVAL & INSTALLATION

Release the fuel system pressure using the recommended procedure.

Rotate the engine to Top Dead Center (TDC) and disconnect negative battery cable.

Drain the coolant and remove the radiator and cooling fan assemblies.

Remove the accessory drive belts.

Remove the upper radiator hose.

Remove the crankshaft damper with a quality puller tool gripping the inside of the pulley.

Remove the stamped steel cover. Do not remove the sealer on the cover. It may be reusable.

Remove the cast cover. If necessary, remove the lower belt cover located behind the crankshaft damper.

To install:

Before installing, inspect the seal on the stamped steel cover. Is some sealer is missing, use MOPAR Silicone Rubber Adhesive Sealant or equivalent to replace the missing sealer.

Install the lower belt cover behind the crankshaft damper, if necessary.

Install the stamped steel cover and the cast cover. Tighten the 6mm bolts to 105 inch. lbs. (12 Nm), the 8mm bolts to 250 inch lbs. (28 Nm) and the 10mm bolts to 40 ft. lbs. (54 Nm).

Install the crankshaft damper using special tool L-4524, a 5.9 inch long bolt, thrust bearing and washer or equivalent damper installation tools. Tighten the center bolt to 85 ft. lbs. (115 Nm).

Install the upper radiator hose.

Install the accessory drive belts and adjust them to the proper tension.

Install the radiator and cooling fan assemblies.

Refill and bleed the cooling system.

Reconnect the negative battery cable. With the radiator cap off so coolant can be added, run the engine. Watch for leaks or unusual engine noises. Add coolant as the engine warms.

Timing Belt

See Figures 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8


Fig. 1: Align the crankshaft sprockets between the marks on the rear belt covers-3.5L engine




Fig. 2: Exploded view of the timing belt routing-3.5L engine




Fig. 3: Compress the tensioner plunger in a vise




Fig. 4: Remove the crankshaft sprocket with tool L-4407-A or the equivalent




Fig. 5: Tap out the dowel pin in the crankshaft




Fig. 6: Remove the crankshaft seal with tool 6341A or equivalent




Fig. 7: Install the seal by tapping it into place with the special tool 6342




Fig. 8: Install the crankshaft sprocket as shown



Remove the timing cover as outlined.

If the timing belt is to be reused, mark the timing belt running direction for installation. Align the camshaft sprockets with the marks on the rear covers.

Remove the timing belt and tensioner. Inspect the timing belt for excessive wear, damage and/or deterioration and replace with new belt, if necessary.

Remove the camshaft sprockets, use the following procedure.

Hold the camshaft sprocket with a 36 mm box wrench, loosen and remove the sprocket retaining bolt and washer.

To remove the camshaft sprocket retainer bolt while the engine is in the vehicle, it may be necessary to raise that side of the engine due to the length of the retainer bolt. The right bolt is 8 3/8-inch (213.00 mm) long, while the left bolt is 10.0 inch (254.00 mm) long. These bolts are not interchangeable and their original location during removal should be noted.

Tap the dowel pin out of the crankshaft.

Remove the seal using a special seal puller.

The shaft seal lip surface must be free of varnish, nicks or dirt. Polish it with a 400 grit paper if necessary.

To install:

Install the crankshaft seal using a seal installer such as tool, 6342 or equivalent.

Install the dowel pin into the crankshaft to 0.047 inch (1.0mm) protrusion.

Install the camshaft sprockets, using the following procedure.

This procedure can only be used when the camshaft sprockets have been loosened or removed from the camshafts. Each sprocket has a D-shaped hole that allows it to be rotated several degrees in each direction on its shaft. This design must be timed with the engine to ensure proper performance.

Pre-load the belt tensioner as follows:

Place the tensioner in a vise the same way it is mounted on the engine.

Slowly compress the plunger into the tensioner body.

When the plunger is compressed into the tensioner body install a pin through the body and plunger to retain plunger in place until tensioner is installed.

Install both camshaft sprockets to the appropriate shafts. The left camshaft sprocket has the DIS pickup as part of the sprocket.

Apply Loctite® 271 or equivalent, to the threads of the camshaft sprocket retainer bolts and install to the appropriate shafts. The right bolt is 8 3/8-inch (213.00mm) long, while the left bolt is 10.0 inch (254.00 mm) long. These bolts are not interchangeable. Do not tighten the bolts at this time. The camshaft marks should be between the marks on the cover.

Align the camshaft sprockets between the marks on the covers.

Align the crankshaft sprocket with the TDC mark on the oil pump cover.

Install the timing belt starting at the crankshaft sprocket and going in a counterclockwise direction. After the belt is installed on the right sprocket, keep tension on the belt until it is past the tensioner pulley.

Holding the tensioner pulley against the belt, install the timing belt tensioner into the housing and tighten to 21 ft. lbs. (28 Nm).

When the tensioner is in place pull the retainer pin to allow tensioner to extend to the pulley bracket.

Remove the spark plug in the No. 1 cylinder and install a dial indicator to check Top Dead Center (TDC) of the piston. Rotate the crankshaft until the piston is exactly at TDC. Hold the camshaft sprocket hex with a 36 mm wrench and tighten the right camshaft sprocket bolt to 75 ft. lbs. (102 Nm) plus an additional 90 degree turn. Tighten the left camshaft sprocket bolt to 85 ft. lbs. (115 Nm) plus an additional 90 degree turn.

Remove the dial indicator. Install the spark plug and tighten to 20 ft. lbs. (28 Nm).

Remove the camshaft alignment tools from the back of the cylinder heads and install the cam covers and new O-rings. Tighten the fasteners to 20 ft. lbs. (27 Nm). Repeat this procedure on the other camshaft.

Rotate the crankshaft sprocket two revolutions and check for proper alignment of the timing marks on the camshaft and the crankshaft. If the timing marks do not line up, repeat the procedure.

Install the timing cover as outlined in the Timing Cover procedure.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Update:

:crying: I've pulled off most of the pieces except
for the crankshaft dampener(?) because I need a puller and
a better wrench. Behind the steel cover I can see bits of
torn rubber and ball bearings!!! I'm guessing this means
the motor is toast?

Anyone ?
 
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Because you are seeing ball-bearings and bits of rubber (timing belt), doesn't mean your motor is toast. I'd imagine the ball-bearings are remnants of a failed tensioner pulley (others who've had this problem can verify). Continue onward with your repairs.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Update:

Well, the crankshaft dampener was a real hard one to do, the 3 prong
puller i used didnt have a long enough bolt to remove it so i threw in
a rachet extension to extend it. The crankshaft started to move but the
extension wedged into it too tight to remove....

I tried to tug it out, pry it out, wedge it out.... finally I used a grinder and
squared the rachet bolt, only then could I twist it out. And the dampener
was still on!

Adjusting the puller and now using a simple bolt I managed to release the
dampener. Finally.

I can now access the crank case.

The belt is still in one piece but the water pump is seized and so is the timer belt
tensioner.

The water pump I bought has 6 bolt holes and mine is a 3 - another walk to the
parts store.

Tomorrow.


I'll keep you guys updated.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
mhzjunkie said:
Well i sure hope you didn't drive that ratchet extention into the threaded bolt hole thats in the front of the crank. :banghead: I would imagine that would not be a good thing for the threads.
:smilie_re I think I was lucky - i threaded in the dampner bolt to rotate the crankshaft after putting on the new water pump and tensioner and she still bolts in. The tdc and markings line up - I think it might work once all put back together - will find out today.... ;)
 

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Yeah, ball bearings are from the failed tensioner. The water pump design changed from 6 bolt to 3 bolts, not sure which year, just exchange for the right one. And you dont have to remove the crank pulley to get the belt off and on, its just a pain if you leave it on, but it will save you time. Make sure you check all 3 timing marks after you put tension on the new belt, and put plenty of black rtv sealant around the new water pump seal.
 
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pucking said:
I think I was lucky - i threaded in the dampner bolt to rotate the crankshaft after putting on the new water pump and tensioner and she still bolts in. The tdc and markings line up - I think it might work once all put back together - will find out today.... ;)
Ok, good deal. I hope everything works out well for you... Keep us posted . I've noticed mention of the "tensioner piston" from others. I'm guessing this was fine on yours ?

I wish I could be more help to you, but I haven't had to changed the timing belt on that engine before.

I'm surprised that none of the other's here that's changed the timing belt on that engine hasn't chimed in.
 

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oh yeah, make sure you bleed the cooling system as well, to get all the air out after you refill it.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
:beer:
Wow.

She turned over! I drove her down the road even.

I know I'm not quite done with it as the dampener sustained some damage while being pulled off (air conditioner groove is wrecked) and I couldn't get the dampener all the way onto the crankshaft.

I lined up the tdc and put the tensioner on - and everything slipped too much. I pulled the belt off and tried again - adjusted for awhile and finally found the groove:

I put the driverside almost dead on and the passenger side cam just to the right of the 2 marks - when tightened it cleared out any slack from the right to left.

I threw the rest of her back together and it looks good - I'll have to look up how to bleed the system - I added 6 litres of pre-mixed coolant into the resevoir and turned the key.

She fired up like nothing had happened.

The fans on the front didn't come on, but then again the engine wasn't
hot yet.

Thanks guys for helping out, I'd buy you all beers if i could. I know
some of my neighbours are going to get some...

... after I drive to the store. ;)

:beer: :gross_06:
 

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To bleed the cooling system, just loosen the bleeder valve a bit on the thermostat housing, my was stripped, so I had to use vice grips (thanks Justin) and hook a line to it and get a bucket and keep bleeding till air stops coming out.
 
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