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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
First one of the Intrepid Struts we took of my car...




Here is the 300m Special Strut which we tried to put on...






Now...what does everyone think. Is that Normal for the 300m Special, or is it bent. This is the reason why my front wheels were toe-ing out and did not align correctly.

--Gorm
 

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Looks hella bent to me. The donor car must have taken one hell of a pounding.
 

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Looks bent to me too. Unless the 300m special mounts different, in which case it isnt going to fit. Unless the camera angle is making it look different it looks like it is either bent bad or not the same as the one you took off.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
lextrep said:
Looks bent to me too. Unless the 300m special mounts different, in which case it isnt going to fit. Unless the camera angle is making it look different it looks like it is either bent bad or not the same as the one you took off.
I'll try to get a better pic of the Intrepid one in the morning. Better light then :)

--Gorm
 

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Gorm said:
I'll try to get a better pic of the Intrepid one in the morning. Better light then :)

--Gorm
LOL, that's an upgrade....lot's of camber makes your ride "Mad Tyte Yo" :grlaugh: Yeah that's bent, where did you get the struts from Gorm, seems they tried to match both arms :doh: ?? I don't see that happen on both suspension sides without some "help" . :gun3:
 

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Heat'em up with a torch, and straiten them out, they not that far bent from factory Specs bro, I would try it out!
 

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luisa said:
Heat'em up with a torch, and straiten them out, they not that far bent from factory Specs bro, I would try it out!
You don't really want to play around with that stuff, if they ever break bcs of the structural damage they have sustained you will lose coplete control of the steering ....so saving a couple of hundred bucks versus expenses of a funeral is a no brainer don't you think ??
 

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luisa said:
??????? ok....
What you don't value your life more than a pair of struts ??? That is a delicate part of the suspension as if the force is applied in the wrong way it will crack, remember they have a torque spec for the outer tie rod bolts bcs if overdone the bolt might crack the assembly, now imagine heating it up and hammering the **** out of it , still don't think it's a bad idea ??
 

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TERMINATOR101CA said:
You don't really want to play around with that stuff...
Yeah, these parts are hot-forged. The process imparts strength through the shaping of the grain structure. If you heat it enough to enter it's plastic phase and allow it to bend then you've altered the grain structure by 'normalizing' it. The part will never be the same.
 

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Yeah io guess so, sorry for the Bad Idea!, GOOOORMMMMMM DONT DO WHAT I HAVE SUGGESTED!----TTooooooooo Dangerous!, Sorry for the mix up dude, I just wanted to correct my self with you and the others!, I know now how these struts are on these cars, everything is relying on these struts, since steering and everything is mounted to the struts, so beware, and post some pics as soon as possible, we wanna know wats the news with the "SPECIAL-BABIES!" ;)


Thanks!\\\Luisa
 

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luisa said:
Yeah io guess so, sorry for the Bad Idea!, GOOOORMMMMMM DONT DO WHAT I HAVE SUGGESTED!----TTooooooooo Dangerous!, Sorry for the mix up dude, I just wanted to correct my self with you and the others!, I know now how these struts are on these cars, everything is relying on these struts, since steering and everything is mounted to the struts, so beware, and post some pics as soon as possible, we wanna know wats the news with the "SPECIAL-BABIES!" ;)


Thanks!\\\Luisa
I sense sarcasm in your tone, and I really don't appreciate it since I was just trying to state the facts as they are, if you're willing to take a chance at least do so while being informed of the consequences ...The End !!
 

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I know, I know, Sorry guys, no sacasmm here, just trying to help out, thats what were all here for, and sorry for the caps, Im typn on a laptop, so Its anooying,lol
 

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Well, since I sold these babies to Gorm, I am going to dive in here and make some comments - all of which I have sent Gorm in a PM.
ALSO, PLEASE BE AWARE THAT I AM IN NO WAY ACCUSING ANY WRONG DOING OR ANYTHING ELSE ON JASON'S PART - HE HAS ONLY RELATED WHAT HE HAS BEEN TOLD, SO PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN FACTS FROM MY POINT OF VIEW.

First, the car that these came from was not ever in any accident involving the front end. I have the fenders, hood (both now on my 300), front bumper cover, headlights (on my 300), steering rack with tie rods, knuckles, radius rods. All of which are perfect.
Now, just to clarefy, while I don't remember seeing any bent arms on the struts, I did wash and clean them before I gave them to Avenger to be shipped to Gorm, and the bend is severe enough that I - hopefully - should have seen it.
On to the pixs:
The first picture, though blurry, shows the spring & strut being covered with sort of a whitish something-or-other - I know for a fact there was nothing like that on them, and I would imaging Rob could verify that, since he handled them. In fact, the left one was in almost new condition, paint wise, with all of it's stickers intact.
The right side, while having no stickers, was virtually the same, with almost no rust, they were from a 2003 car that was a water damage write-off from the flood we had in Toronto last summer.

The second picture shows what definitely appears to be hammer blows to the end of the arm, severe enough to flatten the casting ridge - it also shows in the other pictures, as well as a few other hammer hits, on the right side and upper edge of the arm. There is no way they were on the arms - I took them off of the car my self, and I use the proper tools - an arm puller to press the tie rod out of the hole, so Those hammer marks were in no way there before. Those are typical of jerk-off shop guys that don't have pullers and use a hammer to beat the daylights out of the pieces to get them off.

The most interesting part, is that there IS a severe bend to the end of the arm, BUT ONLY THE END OF THE ARM. Where is the damage to the softer & thinner body of the strut? My 300, when it hit the ditch, bent the strut, the engine frame, the tie rod, and the radius rod, but the arm was straight as new. After all, it is a 1" X 2 1/4" piece of cast iron, with webbing - considerably stronger than the 3/4" tie rod or 1/6" STRUT BODY.
All of this leads me to believe that A) the picture is not of the strut that I sent, or B) that the shop couldn't get the alignment (camber) correct, and used a hammer on the end of the arms to try to persuade the strut to correct alignment, instead of getting the service manual out to see that there are proper undersize camber-adjusting bolts available. (Since Jason has stated he has aftermarket struts, it is safe to say it was NOT a Chrysler dealer, but rather some do-it-all shop that wouldn't have a clue as to proper proceedures & parts.
I have asked Gorm if he was there the entire time that the work was done, but he hasn't confirmed yet.
The shops contention that the bend stopped the proper toe being met is absolute BS, since there is more than enough length in the tie rod sleeve to make up for any toe in or out problem caused by the minor bend (not to say it should be there or the strut should be used, just to clarefy) - also, the bend would be compensated for by the ball joint on the tie rod end, so, again, BS that toe in/out was impossible.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, I'm sure if I was there, I'd be able to rip apart the guys that did the job and give them new assholes.

I will, however, give Jason back his money for the struts, since I can't prove any of the above, and I would not take the chance that I did overlook the bend in the arm, if in fact it was there. Anyone who has dealt with me knows I would not knowingly sell anything that was either damaged, not safe or otherwise not up to par.
I apologize to Jason as well for all the grief he has encountered with this generally easy and worthwhile swap; and again, NONE of the above is meant to slight or aimed at Jason in any way at all, so Jason or you other guys, please don't take it that way.
 

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Hey it happenes, but thats why were all here guys, we keep koo, and keep the site Kool, much Luv for all honesty here guys/gals. ;) Its what counts!:)
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Torontofirecaptain said:
On to the pixs:
The first picture, though blurry, shows the spring & strut being covered with sort of a whitish something-or-other - I know for a fact there was nothing like that on them, and I would imaging Rob could verify that, since he handled them. In fact, the left one was in almost new condition, paint wise, with all of it's stickers intact.
The first pic is of my OEM strut which I took for a comparison. I went ahead and made the size bigger and in bold for anyone else who might have made the same mistake.

I guess I need to take some pics of the stickers and such tomorrow in the daytime.

Torontofirecaptain said:
The right side, while having no stickers, was virtually the same, with almost no rust, they were from a 2003 car that was a water damage write-off from the flood we had in Toronto last summer.
I don't see any rust as well, as I do not know which sturt (left, right) I took a picture of i guess I will have to take both in a shot tomorrow.

Torontofirecaptain said:
The second picture shows what definitely appears to be hammer blows to the end of the arm, severe enough to flatten the casting ridge - it also shows in the other pictures, as well as a few other hammer hits, on the right side and upper edge of the arm. There is no way they were on the arms - I took them off of the car my self, and I use the proper tools - an arm puller to press the tie rod out of the hole, so Those hammer marks were in no way there before. Those are typical of jerk-off shop guys that don't have pullers and use a hammer to beat the daylights out of the pieces to get them off.
I've used this shop for almost 6 years now, my dad before it goes back til the place opened. I completely trust them. I hate to say it, but just taking a hammer isn't going to make much a of dent in these things, let alone move it up and out. Yes, I did notice the marks when I examined them in Chicago, I didn't think much of it, as both of the fronts were identical, bend and all.


Torontofirecaptain said:
The most interesting part, is that there IS a severe bend to the end of the arm, BUT ONLY THE END OF THE ARM. Where is the damage to the softer & thinner body of the strut? My 300, when it hit the ditch, bent the strut, the engine frame, the tie rod, and the radius rod, but the arm was straight as new. After all, it is a 1" X 2 1/4" piece of cast iron, with webbing - considerably stronger than the 3/4" tie rod or 1/6" STRUT BODY.
All of this leads me to believe that A) the picture is not of the strut that I sent, or B) that the shop couldn't get the alignment (camber) correct, and used a hammer on the end of the arms to try to persuade the strut to correct alignment, instead of getting the service manual out to see that there are proper undersize camber-adjusting bolts available. (Since Jason has stated he has aftermarket struts, it is safe to say it was NOT a Chrysler dealer, but rather some do-it-all shop that wouldn't have a clue as to proper proceedures & parts.
I have asked Gorm if he was there the entire time that the work was done, but he hasn't confirmed yet.
The shops contention that the bend stopped the proper toe being met is absolute BS, since there is more than enough length in the tie rod sleeve to make up for any toe in or out problem caused by the minor bend (not to say it should be there or the strut should be used, just to clarefy) - also, the bend would be compensated for by the ball joint on the tie rod end, so, again, BS that toe in/out was impossible.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, I'm sure if I was there, I'd be able to rip apart the guys that did the job and give them new assholes.

I will, however, give Jason back his money for the struts, since I can't prove any of the above, and I would not take the chance that I did overlook the bend in the arm, if in fact it was there. Anyone who has dealt with me knows I would not knowingly sell anything that was either damaged, not safe or otherwise not up to par.
I apologize to Jason as well for all the grief he has encountered with this generally easy and worthwhile swap; and again, NONE of the above is meant to slight or aimed at Jason in any way at all, so Jason or you other guys, please don't take it that way.

I don't really want to respond to all that anymore. However i think your right about the struts. I did speak to the dealer first doing this before i talked to my everything else shop. The dealer wanted nothing to do with putting "300m struts onto an Intrepid"...This is of course the dealer who told me my car was junk because of what I've done to it...so big suprise there.

I'm not really looking into getting any money back, but unless something happened like what you described at the shop, I did nothing else wrong. With all the information and evidence I have...to me it looks like maybe they are bent. I also, once again do not beleive my shop would do anything like this. The stuck them on normally, it was when they tried to align it that they had problems. First i thought it was just because they didn't align it to a 300m special standards, then i went and got those special bolts thinking that was the problem...then after all that, I still didn't beleive it was bent, so thats when I looked at it myself. I wish i would have grabed some photos but i did not have my camera or even my phone with me at that time :(

I hate being the middle man here. I'm not sure what to beleive at this point. I knew right from the beginning that TFC would never sell me anything bad, but then again I trust me shop. I guess I'm stuck.

Either way my car feels like a million bucks now with the new suspension. Also, looks good with that lowered stance and those 18s.

Let me also say that this experience will NOT stop me from buying anything from TFC in the future. He is the next YB, he is the next guy who we will all look up to for things to do in the future. If he says somethings going to happen and look good, then damn it...it will look good. :D

Ross, if you want some more photos, I will take some more tomorrow afternoon after work.

Next time I need something from ya, (like special exhaust) I'm driving up to Canada, get it done right at your place. :D

Thanks again,

--Gorm
 
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