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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello geniuses, chasing this P0056 and P0141 codes. After reading several posts online it turns out that it like NGK (or NTK) brands best.. I found a listing O2 Sensors and their Part #s, if its correct Mine is 23133. I bought 2, They arrived, I Installed them, cleared the codes, cranked the car, the codes were still there. At this point I'm suspecting the Heater circuit is bad, Bad Wiring or PCM not doing its job since I have changed the O2 Sensors with brand new ones. I have spent the last 2 Weeks studying everything I can find on these Chrysler O2 Sensors, ScannerDanner Have some serious videos on YouTube about Chrysler O2 Sensors. I just can't understand the language that He's speaking, Lol. But, according to him, there should be a 5V reference at IGN On, Eng off, Used to test the Heater Circuit (And as I Originally thought it should be 12V? Correct Me please)

Anyhow, I've been going through the FSM to see what I can find about the Wiring of the O2 Sensor, I've attempted checking the Voltage at the O2 Sensor Connector Harness at IGN On to see if I can find any 5V or 12V (Tracing the 2 White Heating Wires down to the O2 Sensor Harness) I got 0V (But I'm not sure the wires that I traced were the correct Wires/Pins, Correct Me Please??) and couldn't get their colors either because the Downstream O2 Connectors are tucked so far down its exhaustingly impossible trying to reach them. Now, I figured since most of these wires terminate at the PCM behind the Headlight or PDB, there Must be a way to check it there, Correct? Problem is, I don't know what color or wire or Pin # it would be, So that's why I'm here.

First question I guess, is am I on the right track as to My efforts so far? As I have changed the O2 Sensors and still getting the same Codes, Is/are there any other easier/better diagnostic procedure approach that I can use to root out this sore thumb?

2. Where/how can I do a simple test with A Multimeter to see if the heater circuit is Compromised?

Truth is, I would ignore this stupid issue, but, I have ignored it for over a Year now, and I'm getting 15-17mpg. Car is a 2002 Chrysler 300M Special.

Thanks Guys.
 

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i had issues like what your describing. it turns out i had a wire broken, inside the vehicle harness side of the o2 connector (the grey connector disassembles into 2-3 pieces)

also. get yourself an ELM bluetooth dongle
https://smile.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Tool-Scanner-Elm-327-Diagnostic/dp/B07P7HJ4M3/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=elm+bluetooth+1.5&qid=1573068502&sr=8-2
and download an app called torque. use it to scope your system. you can watch live feeds of you o2 sensor voltages and about anything the car has a sensor for.
its amazing. and as cheap as it gets.
make sure you get the v1.5 not the v2 or v3.
 

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sounds like your on the right track but working way too hard. the voltages will be minuscule in changes and a multimeter will put you hunched over an engine bay... not a good position, and again working way too hard. you'd need to backprobe the connector to get accurate results but id suggest against that as it damages the already old wires.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
also. get yourself an ELM bluetooth dongle
https://smile.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Tool-Scanner-Elm-327-Diagnostic/dp/B07P7HJ4M3/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=elm+bluetooth+1.5&qid=1573068502&sr=8-2
and download an app called torque. use it to scope your system. you can watch live feeds of you o2 sensor voltages and about anything the car has a sensor for.
its amazing. and as cheap as it gets.
make sure you get the v1.5 not the v2 or v3.
I do have that OBDII Code reader, I've had it for 2 Years and didn't even know It read O2 Sensor codes, I Found out about it when You uploaded a screenshot of it in One of Your Post about the same Problem. I have been Using it since to monitor the O2 Sensor voltage. I didn't know the Versions matter, I don't know what My version is, Hopefully its written somewhere on it. But, isn't the v1.5 older than the v2 or v3? I would think the newer versions is what everybody would want...??
 

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Discussion Starter #5
sounds like your on the right track but working way too hard. the voltages will be minuscule in changes and a multimeter will put you hunched over an engine bay... not a good position, and again working way too hard. you'd need to backprobe the connector to get accurate results but id suggest against that as it damages the already old wires.
Yea I was doing the voltage check with a DMM Hunched over under the hook working hard when I didn't have to... Thanks to You, Ever since I found out that I can monitor the voltage via the ELM OBDII code reader I Just do it that way. But, After watching how the Voltage dropped, I noticed that the voltage Only dropped like it should when the Exhaust gets hot enough to cause the O2 sensors to Produce voltage (I believe the O2 Sensors Create their Own voltage when they get Hot). So I went to My 03 Black M Special and Watched the voltage, I Noticed that it doesn't take long at all for the voltage to start dropping soon after starting the engine. I don't know what to make of this situation, Only thing I think of is the Heater Circuit being bad, Since when I start the car on cold Engine the Computer sends voltage to the O2 Sensor to help heat it up quicker while the engine warms up. And since I'm Only getting voltage when the O2 sensor warms up (Which I'm guessing is read by the sensing circuit of the O2 sensor, not by the heater circuit, Obviously) I'm drawing My conclusion that, that particular circuit in the computer is bad and not doing its Job... ??
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i had issues like what your describing. it turns out i had a wire broken, inside the vehicle harness side of the o2 connector (the grey connector disassembles into 2-3 pieces) .
To add to this scenario, I thought about the possibility of Me having a similar situation. But I had to rule it out, because in this particular car, I Changed the Transmission (for the Fun of it) when I changed the engine (Not that the transmission was bad, I learnt the gearing was different in the 2.7 cars and I wanted to see if it'd improve the responsiveness if the 3.5 engine, since I didn't like How slow the one in it was. It was from My 01 Intrepid 2.7 that I had left over.). Anyway, I said that because, since the O2 sensor Wires are attached to the transmission and I used the harnesses from the intrepid. Plus, I was already having this O2 Sensor Issue before all this, Matter of Fact, I bought the car with this O2 sensor issue present. So after changing the harness and I still have the Issue, that Leads to Me to believe that It's almost impossible for the harness to be compromised as it was in Your situation.
 

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I do have that OBDII Code reader, I've had it for 2 Years and didn't even know It read O2 Sensor codes, I Found out about it when You uploaded a screenshot of it in One of Your Post about the same Problem. I have been Using it since to monitor the O2 Sensor voltage. I didn't know the Versions matter, I don't know what My version is, Hopefully its written somewhere on it. But, isn't the v1.5 older than the v2 or v3? I would think the newer versions is what everybody would want...??
the newer ones arnt compatible with our older cars... I have a v2 or v2.1, I forget but it just never connects and talks to the APP / Car. the v1.5 works like magic.

o2 sensors are a funny thing. ill give you my 2 minute explanation.

they all have heaters, so on a cold car if you are reading live stats they will display 1.27V
the upstream (header) o'2s go to voltage soon, maybe 1-2 minutes. should read .6-.9V
the downstream (post cat) should ALWAYS read equal to or lower.
the downstream (post cat) takes 2-3 minutes to drop voltage and should be .2-.6v

now with that said, its like English, there is always an exception.

if your coasting downhill its not unheard of to see (for me) o2 reading all at .00 or .01v

neither side will be the same, if it is it wont last long,




this one the car was idling and you can see my 2x2 o2 is low voltage, that indicates an exhaust leak.


now if you have the car running for more then 5 minutes and you see 0v or 1.27v you have issues. 1.27v the heater is stuck on or the sensor line is broken.
if you have 0v its still a wiring issue.


I think the grey and white are the heater and black and one with line is sensor.. I cant find the pinout. maybe peva can help.
but live stats will push you in the right direction. trying to probe and look for a .4 or .1v difference, with a multimeter, lol, will be a royal pain in your.. you know what.
 

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Info. on using the FSM wiring diagrams section 8W, using the O2 sensors as an example:

NOTE: On any index page, you can click on the page number you want to go to, and it takes you there.

Section 8W index - first, we need the component index - section 8W-02 - to find out which section has the wiring diagrams of the O2 sensors, and later we’ll need the pinouts for the connectors (at the sensors and at the PCM), section 8W-80:


So we go to the component index - section 8W-02 - to find the section with the O2 sensor wiring diagrams - and we see that it’s section 8W-30:


Then we go to the index for section 8W-30 to find the pages with the O2 sensor wiring diagrams (suggest you print them out):






Now we’re ready to get the pinouts for the O2 sensor connectors (we only need one because their pinouts by function are all the same, though wire colors are different - see wiring diagrams for wire colors) and the C1, C2, and C3 PCM connectors.

Proceed to next post...
 

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As seen in the last post, in the section 8W index, the connector pinouts section is 8W-80, so now we go to the index for section 8W-80. There we see that the O2 sensor connector pinouts are on pages 8W-80-73 and -74 (again, only one of the O2 pinouts is needed), and that the PCM C1, C2, and C3 pinouts are on pages 8W-80-80, -81, and 82 (again, suggest you print them out):









 

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Did the 2.7 transmission give any noticeable performance gains??? Those of us doing the 2.7 to 3.5 swap have inquiring minds and want to know...
 

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Did the 2.7 transmission give any noticeable performance gains??? Those of us doing the 2.7 to 3.5 swap have inquiring minds and want to know...
The OP is asking about his O2 Sensor issues.

You should PM the poster regarding his Performance "Enhancements" rather than Derailing this thread from the original topic.
 

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Did the 2.7 transmission give any noticeable performance gains??? Those of us doing the 2.7 to 3.5 swap have inquiring minds and want to know...
final drive chain is the diffrence in gearing and can be swapped into any of these trans.
you'll also rev higher at any given speed.
without programming the speedometer will be wrong.
 

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I've read many posts that got off topic, and it was mentioned, so lighten up there tough guy, we're all on here because we enjoy LH cars and enjoy writing about our exploits. Or is that something you have forgotten?
 
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