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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So i took my intrepid in to get an alignment today and apparently the adjusting sleeve for the tie rods is basically peeling off. I checked, and it seriously is. i ordered new tie rods to be safe and new sleeves, but i need some help. how the hell do i take off the inner tie rod 22mm nuts to the rack?? there’s a lot in the way and those washers are really difficult to work with. i’m not sure if i even need new inner tie rods but i know i need the new sleeves. any help is appreciated!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
UPDATE:
I managed to get the tie rod assembly out on the drivers side. the passengers side adjustment sleeve isnt very messed up but ill probably do it anyway since i plan to sell this car. anyways, is there anything i need to know before reinstalling the tie rods? i know to reference the previous lengths etc, but is there anything secret that id need to be concerned with? heres how the sleeve looks btw lmao
Saw Motor vehicle Automotive tire Tool Gas
 

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That's typical of what happens to the adjusting sleeves. This is one case in which aftermarket actually improved the design of the part - but you have to order the right part number of a given manufacturer to get the improved design, as some of the manufacturers offer both the inferior OEM knurled squeeze-grip design and the much-improved large-hex design. The improved design has a large hex for an open-end wrench rather than the knurled round plier-grip surface - see photos below.

The part is a relatively thin-walled slit tube that is threaded both on its OD (mates to female inner tie rod threads) and ID (mates to the male outer tie rod threads). The problem with the OEM design knurled-grip part is that you have to squeeze down on the part with pliers to turn it, but because the part is slit, squeezing it also collapses the part around the male threads of the outer tie rod - creating friction which is greatly aggravated by a little surface corrosion. The result is that you end up ripping the sleeve apart in the process of trying to adjust it, as shown in your photo. Adding the large hex for grip by an open-end wrench eliminates the squeeze-down for turning grip. Normal corrosion still adds some turning resistance, but generally not to the point of ripping it apart to get it adjusted.

Moog ES3528S OEM inferior knurled squeeze-grip design:
Camera accessory Skyscraper Office supplies Font Metal


Moog ES3608S improved "Large Hex" design:
Automotive tire Cylinder Auto part Household hardware Automotive wheel system



So the tips for installation are:
1. Lube the threads of the outer tie rod and the OD threads of the sleeve with marine-grade grease before mating the sleeve and the two tie rod ends to reduce future corrosion (and therefore adjustment friction/binding).
2. Start the outer tie rod and the inner tie rod by separately turning them the same number of turns engaging the sleeve threads to achieve approximate overall outer tie rod/sleeve/inner tie rod assembly length, then make the final adjustment of the overall length by turning only the sleeve. (If you have grossly different inner and outer tie tod end thread engagement, you run the risk of having an inadequate and dangerously low amount of thread engagement of the sleeve with either the inner or outer tie rod. Within 1 or two turns of same thread engagement => good; difference of 4 or 5 turns of thread engagement => dangerous.)
3. No need to replace the inner tie rods - just the two bushings (the rods themselves never wear out). Outer tie rod ball joints eventually wear out, so replace outer tie rods. (Again, lube the adjusting threads with a light-to-moderate coating of good marine-grade grease before re-assembling.)
4. The tabs on the figure-8 washer are for locking the two inner tie rod bolts from loosening and coming out. If you replace the bolts, the heads of the new bolts are almost always much smaller hex than the original bolts, and the locking tabs don't adequately engage the flats of the bolt heads, so put blue thread locker on the bolt threads. More than a few people have had those bolts loosen and back completely out with disasterous results because the mechanic or DIY'er didn't understand that problem. Even with the larger bolt heads, no reason not to also put blue thread locker on the bolt threads.
 
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Just Moog it ! With the Hex Head parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That's typical of what happens to the adjusting sleeves. This is one case in which aftermarket actually improved the design of the part - but you have to order the right part number of a given manufacturer to get the improved design, as some of the manufacturers offer both the inferior OEM knurled squeeze-grip design and the much-improved large-hex design. The improved design has a large hex for an open-end wrench rather than the knurled round plier-grip surface - see photos below.

The part is a relatively thin-walled slit tube that is threaded both on its OD (mates to female inner tie rod threads) and ID (mates to the male outer tie rod threads). The problem with the OEM design knurled-grip part is that you have to squeeze down on the part with pliers to turn it, but because the part is slit, squeezing it also collapses the part around the male threads of the outer tie rod - creating friction which is greatly aggravated by a little surface corrosion. The result is that you end up ripping the sleeve apart in the process of trying to adjust it, as shown in your photo. Adding the large hex for grip by an open-end wrench eliminates the squeeze-down for turning grip. Normal corrosion still adds some turning resistance, but generally not to the point of ripping it apart to get it adjusted.

Moog ES3528S OEM inferior knurled squeeze-grip design:
View attachment 42091

Moog ES3608S improved "Large Hex" design:
View attachment 42092


So the tips for installation are:
1. Lube the threads of the outer tie rod and the OD threads of the sleeve with marine-grade grease before mating the sleeve and the two tie rod ends to reduce future corrosion (and therefore adjustment friction/binding).
2. Start the outer tie rod and the inner tie rod by separately turning them the same number of turns engaging the sleeve threads to achieve approximate overall outer tie rod/sleeve/inner tie rod assembly length, then make the final adjustment of the overall length by turning only the sleeve. (If you have grossly different inner and outer tie tod end thread engagement, you run the risk of having an inadequate and dangerously low amount of thread engagement of the sleeve with either the inner or outer tie rod. Within 1 or two turns of same thread engagement => good; difference of 4 or 5 turns of thread engagement => dangerous.)
3. No need to replace the inner tie rods - just the two bushings (the rods themselves never wear out). Outer tie rod ball joints eventually wear out, so replace outer tie rods. (Again, lube the adjusting threads with a light-to-moderate coating of good marine-grade grease before re-assembling.)
4. The tabs on the figure-8 washer are for locking the two inner tie rod bolts from loosening and coming out. If you replace the bolts, the heads of the new bolts are almost always much smaller hex than the original bolts, and the locking tabs don't adequately engage the flats of the bolt heads, so put blue thread locker on the bolt threads. More than a few people have had those bolts loosen and back completely out with disasterous results because the mechanic or DIY'er didn't understand that problem. Even with the larger bolt heads, no reason not to also put blue thread locker on the bolt threads.
damn, i ordered the parts before knowing the hex head issue....
no matter, im selling this car once i fix it to buy an 04 bmw 545i.
ill make sure to follow the install tips tho!!! tysm!!
 

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You must like "Money Pits" ! Wait until you experience the first repair cost on that German Turd (If you ever get it). Part prices alone will bankrupt you. Have fun with that. Maybe buy an old Mercedes too to "Double your fun and Cost" !

You keep talking about buying another car and dumping your SE. Why dump money into it if you intend to get rid of it? Diminishing returns?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
You must like "Money Pits" ! Wait until you experience the first repair cost on that German Turd (If you ever get it). Part prices alone will bankrupt you. Have fun with that. Maybe buy an old Mercedes too to "Double your fun and Cost" !

You keep talking about buying another car and dumping your SE. Why dump money into it if you intend to get rid of it? Diminishing returns?
sadly not an se, base 2.7l. i bought this car as my first car as im still a teenager about to finish high school. while it is a functioning car, it doesnt quite provide the experience im after. shortly after buying it i got into my car phase, so now im looking for cars to offer a bit more intensive of an experience. hence the option of the 545i with its 325 horsepower.

this car is known to have issues. oil sludge, pcv according to a few people, etc. while im no mechanic, i like working on my car, its just that this car doesnt feel like it offers a real reward for fixing it. basically, id want a tuner car, and this is more of a shitbox than anything.

the previous owner let this thing dry rot for 8+ months in his driveway, barely changed the oil, clearly didnt care enough about it to do basic maintenance. his mom owned it from illinois, and she clearly never got an oil change. this leads me to suspect oil sludge will strike soon, despite its 47,000 miles or so.
 

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The earlier "Base" cars...1998-2000 are the equivalent of what was labeled the SE in later years. Same trim and same engine.

I had both a 1999 and 2000 Base trim cars. Both had 2.7L and base equipped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The earlier "Base" cars...1998-2000 are the equivalent of what was labeled the SE in later years. Same trim and same engine.

I had both of a 1999 and 2000 Base trim cars. Both had 2.7L and base equipped.
gotcha. my main points still stand, just looking for something a bit more fun to drive.
might be stuck with this for a while tho, well have to see how it all works out
 

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You're welcome.

Oh - one more important tie rod/sleeve installation tip:
Before tightening the adjusting sleeve clamp, rotate the outer tie rod so that its ball joint is approximately in the middle if its rotation. If it's leaning over a good bit when you tighten the clamp, as the suspension and steering go thru their normal range of motions, the ball joint can hit the end of its axial rotational travel and seriously put a rotating force/binding on the inner tie rod bushings and destroy the bushings rapidly. You'll see people complain of very short life on the inner tie rod bushings after replacing them, and I suspect that, in some or most cases, they (or an alignment shop) tightened the clamp with the outer tie rod leaned over.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You're welcome.

Oh - one more important tie rod/sleeve installation tip:
Before tightening the adjusting sleeve clamp, rotate the outer tie rod so that its ball joint is approximately in the middle if its rotation. If it's leaning over a good bit when you tighten the clamp, as the suspension and steering go thru their normal range of motions, the ball joint can hit the end of its axial rotational travel and seriously put a rotating force/binding on the inner tie rod bushings and destroy the bushings rapidly. You'll see people complain of very short life on the inner tie rod bushings after replacing them, and I suspect that, in some or most cases, they (or an alignment shop) tightened the clamp with the outer tie rod leaned over.
so basically line up the outer tie rod to where it would be installed in the strut? rotation wise, i know i cant get a precise location
 

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The 2000 Base with Chrysler wheels.....
Wheel Car Tire Land vehicle Vehicle


Bought used at 90k miles and survived until I sold it at 120k miles. No maintenance issues other than oil changes.

The 1999 was bought new and Repoed a few years later in the dark history of my life. These aren't bad cars...even the 2.7L.

However if you do stoopid **** like "Off-Roading" over medians and hitting sign posts....your future choice of vehicles will cost substantially more to repair. Good luck on your future choices.
 

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so basically line up the outer tie rod to where it would be installed in the strut? rotation wise, i know i cant get a precise location
Yes. So, whether the joint has a zerk (grease) fitting or not, if it has/had a zerk fitting, the fitting would be point straight down, rather than be tilted.

And of course - yes - we're talking about as rotated around the tie rod length axis, not as rotated around the axis of the ball joint stud. 👍
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The 2000 Base with Chrysler wheels.....
View attachment 42093

Bought used at 90k miles and survived until I sold it at 120k miles. No maintenance issues other than oil changes.

The 1999 was bought new and Repoed a few years later in the dark history of my life. These aren't bad cars...even the 2.7L.

However if you do stoopid **** like "Off-Roading" over medians and hitting sign posts....your future choice of vehicles will cost substantially more to repair. Good luck on your future choices.
funny story is that the median and sign **** is how the suspension got borked lmao, tires lost grip mid turn and i slid facefirst into a median. so.
 

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The 2000 Base with Chrysler wheels.....
View attachment 42093

Bought used at 90k miles and survived until I sold it at 120k miles. No maintenance issues other than oil changes.

The 1999 was bought new and Repoed a few years later in the dark history of my life. These aren't bad cars...even the 2.7L.

However if you do stoopid **** like "Off-Roading" over medians and hitting sign posts....your future choice of vehicles will cost substantially more to repair. Good luck on your future choices.
Dang! That's pretty nuts. I can't tell you how many times I was over confident and stuffed it into a snow drift.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes. So, whether the joint has a zerk (grease) fitting or not, if it has/had a zerk fitting, the fitting would be point straight down, rather than be tilted.

And of course - yes - we're talking about as rotated around the tie rod length axis, not as rotated around the axis of the ball joint stud. 👍
so while i was removing the inner tie rods from the rack, i think this hose busted because i pushed on it too hard or something? im not sure, but it looks like it might be a vacuum line (?)
is there any chance youd know what that is and how to repair it?
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That's a PCV hose. The fact that it broke like that means it needed replacing anyway. Read what I said about Chrysler part number 04663961 in post no. 8 in this very recent thread - it's your best option:
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That's a PCV hose. The fact that it broke like that means it needed replacing anyway. Read what I said about Chrysler part number 04663961 in post no. 8 in this very recent thread - it's your best option:
so i kinda need these parts sooner rather than later, so i was looking to see if any of the parts autozone carries would fit. does this look to fit? it seems to have the same shape as the chrysler oem one.

 

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so i kinda need these parts sooner rather than later, so i was looking to see if any of the parts autozone carries would fit. does this look to fit? it seems to have the same shape as the chrysler oem one.

I tried several aftermarket hoses, but was not successful in finding any that could tolerate the exposure to heat, oil, and crankcase fumes. Perhaps Dorman has come out with these since then. Dorman is not known for quality of design and materials, particularly when it comes to plastic and rubber parts. Their coolant reservoirs and 2.7 engine coolant outlet housings for our cars generally only last a few weeks due to inferior materials and are to be avoided.

That part might be good. Try it out and let us know if it's still flexible after 15k or 20k miles.
 
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