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My water pump is the upgraded Mopar one with the new upgraded gasket I had to buy that separately but my timing chain set is from the big three DodgeChryslerFord. I know most people prefer factory parts but I don't trust them if the factory part went out most likely its a problem with that particular part from the factory. Had my car 6 years now and haven't had any problems, I put in a oil catch can and only use full synthetic oil to help avoid sludge. These cars are known to be bad right off the line but we all know Chrysler won't admit that. But everyone is different some like factory some like aftermarket.
Safe to say that all of these cars are way past the infant mortality-type failures. :)

As I said, there are definitely some parts for these cars that should be avoided in aftermarket, but there a couple that the aftermarket is actually better. I gave examples.
 

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Safe to say that all of these cars are way past the infant mortality-type failures. :)

As I said, there are definitely some parts for these cars that should be avoided in aftermarket, but there a couple that the aftermarket is actually better. I gave examples.
I'm talking about the fact they designed the pvc system wrong, that is an ongoing problem for the 2000s
 

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I'm talking about the fact they designed the pvc system wrong, that is an ongoing problem for the 2000s
What in particular is wrong about it, and is that dependent on whether or not it has/had the PCV heat exchanger (some of the LH badges (or was it by which engine?) started coming with the heat exchanger at different times in the production time line). (The heat exchanger solved a problem of caustic volatiles in the crankcase blowby gases cooling and condensing out and solidifying inside the PCV hose before reaching the PCV valve, and clogging the PCV hose, and also softening/dissolving/eating a hole in the hose.

EDIT: The reason I didn't use the Chrysler PCV valve is that I got bit by either a serious design or manufacturing quality issue on two that I bought at different times that caused them to randomly jam/latch in the closed position (brand new out of the box) - causing sporadic seriously high usage of oil, including visible smoke out the exhaust. Since I couldn't tell if Chrysler had ever fixed or was even aware of the problem, I decided to take my chances on name-brand aftermarket PCV valves after that, with good success. Perhaps you experienced the same thing without knowing the cause, and that led to your opinion of bad design of the PCV system?
 

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Thanks for the info guys I was not aware of the tensioner stop. Sounds well worth it. I plan to buy only OEM. I'm old enough and worked on enough vehicles to know that is literally the only way to go when it comes to hard parts like this. That said I believe the tensioner was updated on the 03/04, not the guides. Maybe that's what you guys are thinking of.

Does anyone know what car I have to buy the timing set for? Is it the 08-10 charger? That's the best I can see. I found this kit 68036787AB but it's discontinued. Seems like it was for the 08-10 chargers and I wasn't sure if there was a difference at all to earlier year chargers. I have to order individual parts to make this kit since they don't sell it anymore, so want to be sure I'm ordering the right stuff. I'm assuming tensioner, guides, sprockets and chains from the 2009 charger will work? I'm really hoping to get some confirmation on this. My daily has been down for almost a week now and I'm in some big trouble here if I don't get these parts this week.

I believe the part number breakdown of this kit is this (found on eBay so take it with a grain of salt):

CONSIST OF: 04892349AA - CHAIN, 06100306 BOLTx2/mounting timing chain guide toto cylinder head/block/, 04892351AA - GUIDE RIGHT SHORT, 04892352AA - GUIDE LEFT SHORT, 04892353AB - GUIDE LONG, 04892350AA - ARM TENSIONER, 04792208 - BUSHING, 04892342AA - SPROCKET CRANKSHAFT, 04892340AA - SPROCKET INTAKE LEFT CAMSHAFT, 04892341AA - SPROCKET INTAKE RIGHT CAMSHAFT. THE KIT IS NOT INCLUDED CHAIN TENSIONER
When you look at those individual part numbers (Rock Auto year-by-year listings should be helpful), to my knowledge, the two guides and the tensioner arm (and bolt and bushing) are usable across years and platforms (i.e., no variations, or at least variations that matter). All sprockets of course have to match which of the two chain pitches you're using (the later design - fine-pitch chain and sprockets - is your choice). In addition, the driver's-side cam sprocket has to have the NGC tone wheel. Staying with parts listed for Charger/LX platform 2.7 listings should ensure meeting all criteria (sprocket/chain pitch and NGC tone wheel)

Does that help?
 

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Pitch Perfect;
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
When you look at those individual part numbers (Rock Auto year-by-year listings should be helpful), to my knowledge, the two guides and the tensioner arm (and bolt and bushing) are usable across years and platforms (i.e., no variations, or at least variations that matter). All sprockets of course have to match which of the two chain pitches you're using (the later design - fine-pitch chain and sprockets - is your choice). In addition, the driver's-side cam sprocket has to have the NGC tone wheel. Staying with parts listed for Charger/LX platform 2.7 listings should ensure meeting all criteria (sprocket/chain pitch and NGC tone wheel)

Does that help?
Yes. So if I order guides, sprockets, chains, a new tensioner and water pump for a 2009 Charger with the 2.7L it will be correct? I just want to be sure I don't need say a 2004 intrepid chain tensioner, and the rest from the charger. I was also worried about that tone ring and possibly different cam timing with the charger sprockets or something.

EDIT: Looks like according to rock auto the tensioner is the same. Now what is odd is the cam gear seems to only run up until the 2007 charger. So I'm guessing something changed on the 2008 charger and that will not work with my 04 intrepid? Is that not considered an LX engine?

Also this might be a dumb question but can I buy the appropriate sprocket and unbolt and use my current NGC tone ring on the charger sprocket? Or are they welded to the sprocket...? or would that not line up properly with the charger sprocket and cause cam timing issues?

Another question... Are any of these bolts in here TTY? I know I have seen crank bolts and cam sprocket bolts that were TTY and should be replaced. Does this timing set have all reusable hardware?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Pretty sure the set for the Charger would do the trick for your '04.

Here are my thoughts, suggestions, etc. You may know most or all of this already:

• I think the water pump has to be purchased separately (most or all kits I've seen do not include the pump).
• Because the chain pitch is different, you must get all new sprockets (both cam sprockets, crankshaft sprocket, and of course water pump that comes with the correct sprocket) - not all kits come with all sprockets because mfr. of the kit may assume the target vehicle is post LH platform and that existing cam and crank sprockets will be used. I think sprockets can be purchased separately if not included in kit.
• Don't know if you intend to go OEM or aftermarket kit/parts. Two parts that I would only get from Chrysler are the chain tensioner and the water pump - have read too many horror stories on aftermarket for those two parts. For one thing, on the water pump, I'm not sure if you can verify before buying an aftermarket pump that you'll get the much improved design pump and water pump gasket. Aftermarket quality on those parts were notoriously bad a few years ago, and as applications age, things generally go downhill, not improve, on available aftermarket quality.
• Even if you can convince yourself that a particular brand of aftermarket chain and sprocket set are acceptable quality, even if the kit comes with chain tensioner, I'd get the tensioner separately from the dealer. (Some kits may not come with the tensioner, which could save you some money if the kit is otherwise good quality, since you'll be getting the tensioner separately from the dealer.)
• Probably all kits come with tensioner arm and guides.
• Consider getting the aftermarket 2.7 tensioner stop block kit (ebay) - it mechanically limits movement of the tensioner arm so that if, for whatever reason, the tensioner fails/collapses, the chain won't get loose enough to slip timing a few teeth and crunch your valves - good insurance for about $30. (There are two versions of the kit: SB02 if replacing chain with new, SB01 if re-using old chain - so you'd need SB02.)
Will the SB01 Kit work with used factory 04 intrepid chains? This is all really adding up and I'm thinking I am going to just get the upgraded WP and reuse everything else. But I think that chain stop is a good idea if it can be used with intrepid chains. Or is that only good for use with the charger chains? Found them on rock auto for about 10 bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Does anyone know where I can find the Timing cover plug o-rings and tensioner cover o-ring? I'm having trouble finding them online. I plan on reusing my tensioner at this point so need to replace these o-rings for good measure.
 

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Yes. So if I order guides, sprockets, chains, a new tensioner and water pump for a 2009 Charger with the 2.7L it will be correct? I just want to be sure I don't need say a 2004 intrepid chain tensioner, and the rest from the charger. I was also worried about that tone ring and possibly different cam timing with the charger sprockets or something.

EDIT: Looks like according to rock auto the tensioner is the same. Now what is odd is the cam gear seems to only run up until the 2007 charger. So I'm guessing something changed on the 2008 charger and that will not work with my 04 intrepid? Is that not considered an LX engine?

Also this might be a dumb question but can I buy the appropriate sprocket and unbolt and use my current NGC tone ring on the charger sprocket? Or are they welded to the sprocket...? or would that not line up properly with the charger sprocket and cause cam timing issues?

Another question... Are any of these bolts in here TTY? I know I have seen crank bolts and cam sprocket bolts that were TTY and should be replaced. Does this timing set have all reusable hardware?
Will the SB01 Kit work with used factory 04 intrepid chains? This is all really adding up and I'm thinking I am going to just get the upgraded WP and reuse everything else. But I think that chain stop is a good idea if it can be used with intrepid chains. Or is that only good for use with the charger chains? Found them on rock auto for about 10 bucks.
Does anyone know where I can find the Timing cover plug o-rings and tensioner cover o-ring? I'm having trouble finding them online. I plan on reusing my tensioner at this point so need to replace these o-rings for good measure.
I need to state a disclaimer on mixing and matching earlier and later parts in that some things I know first hand by experience; other things that I haven't done myself, you and I both are at the same place on the learning curve (and in some cases, there are things that I may used to have known, but my mind may now be a little fuzzy on), and we both have to make our best guesses from clues that we may stumble across in the Rock Auto applications lists and other sources, and in all cases, you have to study the parts for form-fit-function, and all risks are your to take. 🤷‍♂️ I only promise to make my best effort for providing correct answers, and attempt to say when I know something for sure, and when I'm winging it based on clues when the clues themselves (applications listings or whatever) may or may not be 100% accurate or complete.

So here goes:

• The cam sprocket and crankshaft bolts are not TTY.
• I know you are talking about swapping your old NGC tone wheel to a new Charger sprocket, but I have seen posts in which owners in a pinch have actually swapped SBEC and NGC tone wheels between driver's side cam sprockets with success. I know there is at least one thread in which a How-To post is included. My recollection is that there are mating tone wheel tabs and sprocket notches that are interchangeable - perhap one tab and notch are at different clocking positions, and so the one mismatched tab would be ground off. Also possibly notches may or may not be staked or welded - if so, that would easily be dealt with as needed. Even if staked or welded, I would think that simply bolting tone wheel and sprocket back together once separated would be adequate. Everything should be obvious once you have all parts in hand. I spent a few minutes searching for such threads/posts, but was not successful - it's a matter of coming up with the right search terms and a bit of luck doing such searches (especially true when the same part may go by several different names - sprocket vs. gear, tone wheel vs. tone ring vs. timing wheel, etc., etc., etc.) but I know there is at least one thread with that info. Having said all of that, I really think the Charger sprocket would be plug-n-play without having to swap tone wheels - a visual comparison would answer that.
• I think your conclusion about not using the LX sprocket beyond 2007 is correct. I wasn't aware of the 2008 change, and don't know if 2008+ would or would not work. Using 2007 and earlier would be lowest risk/best bet.
• On SB01 vs. SB02 stop blocks, they are the same, except the edge that determines how far back the tensioner is allowed to come back is ground/filed back a little further on the SBO2. (You could turn an SB01 into in SB02, but not vice versa.) AFAIK, the stop blocks are compatible with old and new chain designs, especially if descriptions give range of years useable with.
• On the o-rings, that would have to be researched, and I don't know if info. is even available to help with that. Most likely they are standard catalog size Buna-N (nitrile) o-rings that could be matched by visual comparison or measurement. Possibly there are old posts with the info., but, again, it would be a matter of coming up with just the right combination of search terms or otherwise happening to stumble across them.
• If you stay with your old chain and just get a new-design water pump, of course you need to be sure it is the updated pump/gasket design (for reliability), BUT with the sprocket (pitch and tooth count) for the old chain design - again, strongly suggest from Chrysler dealer only - NOT aftermarket - IF still available.
 

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I think I just remembered that a tone wheel swap was covered in one of the 4.0 liter stroker project threads. That was necessary due to the details of the sprocket center holes-to-cam shaft nose being different between LH 3.5 and the 4.0 engine. If you search out later 4.0 stroker threads, I think you'll find that info. (2.7 vs. 3.2/3.5 vs. 4.0 tone ring-to-sprocket attachment details are probably similar if not identical - wouldn't surprise me if they all use the same tone rings, except conversion between SBEC and NGC was needed for that project.)

EDIT: Best I've been able to come up with so far (tone ring is a press or heat expansion/shrink fit - no welding or staking): 4.0 Cams in an LH

Oh wait - looks like 2.7 is totally bolt on tone wheel - I think you had already realized that. Photo from Rock Auto - Cloyes S862 - tells the story. And look at the apps. list! 👍

Bicycle part Rim Circle Auto part Composite material


Light Automotive tire Font Line Screenshot
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I think I just remembered that a tone wheel swap was covered in one of the 4.0 liter stroker project threads. That was necessary due to the details of the sprocket center holes-to-cam shaft nose being different between LH 3.5 and the 4.0 engine. If you search out later 4.0 stroker threads, I think you'll find that info. (2.7 vs. 3.2/3.5 vs. 4.0 tone ring-to-sprocket attachment details are probably similar if not identical - wouldn't surprise me if they all use the same tone rings, except conversion between SBEC and NGC was needed for that project.)

EDIT: Best I've been able to come up with so far (tone ring is a press or heat expansion/shrink fit - no welding or staking): 4.0 Cams in an LH

Oh wait - looks like 2.7 is totally bolt on tone wheel - I think you had already realized that. Photo from Rock Auto - Cloyes S862 - tells the story. And look at the apps. list! 👍

View attachment 42876

View attachment 42877
Thanks for all the input. I think I'm going the route of using the old stuff already in the car, with the updated pump to fit the old style chain. My cars an 04 so has the updated tensioner and at 80k miles, I'm sure it has another 100k in it. The car is super clean so I'm not very concerned. I just have to figure out these o ring replacements now.
 

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Simple can be better - and cheaper. Important thing is the updated water pump. If it was me, I'd also replace the tensioner (with one from the dealer), but there is a cost, but with the stop block, you'll have some inexpensive protection against damage in the event your tensioner does fail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Simple can be better - and cheaper. Important thing is the updated water pump. If it was me, I'd also replace the tensioner (with one from the dealer), but there is a cost, but with the stop block, you'll have some inexpensive protection against damage in the event your tensioner does fail.
Did the 03/04 tensioner really fail? I thought that was mostly the earlier ones. The things are so ridiculously expensive I hate to replace one that works just fine and is not really known to fail.
 

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Did the 03/04 tensioner really fail? I thought that was mostly the earlier ones. The things are so ridiculously expensive I hate to replace one that works just fine and is not really known to fail.
You could be right. Easy for me to "strongly suggest" for you to replace it when I'm not the one paying for it. Like I said, the stop block helps reduce the anxiety, helping to make your decision easier. Dan (Daytrepper) isn't as convinced as I am that it will necessarily save the day if the tensioner takes a vacation. I can't say that he's wrong. Hey - here's an idea!: You could do an experiment for the forum: Install the stop block and remove your tensioner and see what happens. Let us know how it works out. We'd appreciate it. 🤪
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
You could be right. Easy for me to "strongly suggest" for you to replace it when I'm not the one paying for it. Like I said, the stop block helps reduce the anxiety, helping to make your decision easier. Dan (Daytrepper) isn't as convinced as I am that it will necessarily save the day if the tensioner takes a vacation. I can't say that he's wrong. Hey - here's an idea!: You could do an experiment for the forum: Install the stop block and remove your tensioner and see what happens. Let us know how it works out. We'd appreciate it. 🤪
I mean I guess I've seen horrible products before, but I want to say if it didn't do anything why would they make it.
 

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I just checked the forum to see what's happening!

Go ahead and reuse the tensioner. And listen to Peva's advice with installing the stop block for the peace of mind ((thank you Peva)).

It's been a year since I changed my water pump and 25000 KLM and the car still runs great (except for burning oil, I have zero motivation to fix it 🙂).
 

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I just checked the forum to see what's happening!

Go ahead and reuse the tensioner. And listen to Peva's advice with installing the stop block for the peace of mind ((thank you Peva)).

It's been a year since I changed my water pump and 25000 KLM and the car still runs great (except for burning oil, I have zero motivation to fix it 🙂).
You're welcome, Masi.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I just checked the forum to see what's happening!

Go ahead and reuse the tensioner. And listen to Peva's advice with installing the stop block for the peace of mind ((thank you Peva)).

It's been a year since I changed my water pump and 25000 KLM and the car still runs great (except for burning oil, I have zero motivation to fix it 🙂).
Where did you locate the replacement o rings? For how cheap the stop is I'm definitely installing that.
 

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Where did you locate the replacement o rings? For how cheap the stop is I'm definitely installing that.
I didn't get any new rings, I reused EVERYTHING (except the pump).
Make sure you practice a LOT on the tensioner before you install it, you'll get a feel when you know it's ready to activate.
For the stop block, you may need to file the hard plastic part so the bolt holes align on the engine side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
If anyone knows where I can get the below it would be greatly appreciated. I cannot find this on any parts stores and don't see anything in any searching online.

Timing cover plug O-rings
Tensioner cover O-ring
Tensioner O-ring
 
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