[rman300m]

I don't think they are lying, I think they are probably right and they would be a lot of fun in day to day driving if they were not so overpriced. My comments on them are based on 1/4 mile times and why they don't get as huge a difference in times as you would think. The size of the gear drop with the prowler pro gears would totally change the nature of the car being at higher rev's all the time.

 

[Turbo]

The Prowler gears are a MUCH larger change and they only give about .5 sec in a whole quarter mile. OK, that is good but from 0-60 you might see .2 sec change. And that boys and girls is with the high cost Prowler gears. The % change is far greater than any offered by the factory. Don't look for a full sec change with Prowlers, let alone 2 sec off the quarter, it ain't there.

I got just about a full second on both 0-60 and in the 1/4th mile. I have timeslips too. I would imagine that any other 3.2 or 3.5 would do the same.

The traction issue in first gear is something to keep in mind if your geting the Prowler Pro gears (28%reduced). But I think my cituation is a little more "un-common." When my motor was naturally aspired including the intake/exhaust/pulley/stock tires, I only spun the tires while doing a brake torque of the line then eventually regained traction around 4000 RPM. Then a little chirp in second. I do believe that the Prowler Pro gears take a lot of the torque load off the transmission and directs it more towards the wheels. But thats just my theory...

The (7% reduced) gears, according to my theory, should help the trans life a little, reduce your 0-60 and 1/4th a little. How much...who knows. But I think it will be noticable for sure. And if you could get it all for a mear 200-300 dollars or so...I would do that. Reason is, I guerentee you that all of our Intrepids are daily drivers. You dont want to take an LH with Prowler Pro gears on the highway for long periods of time....Its F#&@ing annoying thats why. However I have to do it every day and I have little choice.

If you want the MOST in performance out of your LH get the Prowler Pro's, if you want more performance for your daily driver...I would do the 2.7L gears instead. IMO of coarse.

 

[Mopar4me]

Thanks rman for setting me straight on the crossmember.

I know that the slightly lower gear may only help a few 10th`s
of a second but doesn`t any modification help some.

How much faster will the car go with a aftermarket chip?

I`ll do some 0 to 60 times before and after the gears are installed
probably next weekend.

 

[rman300m]

Turbo

Kudos to you if it dropped your times one second. I only speak from what I have heard on the Prowler board and 300m board. The prowler board consensus is about .3 to .4 seconds in the 1/4 for guys with actual track times. Alot of guys have the gears on the prowler board and alot of them run on the track. At the 300m club only one guy with the gears has run before and after times and he is .3 seconds faster at the track.

I would think it should be higher say .6 to .8 but real world numbers don't show it.

If I gain .2 to .4 seconds with the 2.7 gears I will be one happy camper.

By the way you have one cool Trep and a great web site.

mopar4me

Gaining a few tenths is not that easy or should I say not that cheap.

I know of one guy with the ASE chip in a 300m who gained about a tenth in the 1/4 mile. The ASE chip was also dynoed by the prowler guy's then removed and run stock "Dyno run #2 was done with the ASE chip and Dyno run #3 was with the stock chip in the ECU. As you will see, there was only roughly a 6hp increase and only between 3200 and 6000 RPM's. Also, note that after 6400 RPM's, power actually decreased and continued to drop steadily which is even more evident in Dyno run #7.

Keane Bell is supposed to be good but I have not seen any dyno or test results to give any actual numbers.

 

[Turbo]

The prowler board consensus is about .3 to .4 seconds in the 1/4 for guys with actual track times. Alot of guys have the gears on the prowler board and alot of them run on the track.

I also read those posts in the Prowler forums. But the problem is that none of them were stock and most weren't natually aspired. Prowlers aren't even getting the same reduction as the Intrepid. The Prowler starts out with the same gears as the 2.7L the 7% reduces ones. Thats because it had to compensate for the huge 20" rims and tires in the back. The 300M guys I honestly haven't heard from because the forum seems to be dead most of the time.

So the Intrepid is actually getting more of a reduction in gear than the Prowler with the Prowler Pro gears. This probobely accounts for most of the differences between my performance gains verses the Prowlers performance gains.

But who knows what the 300M guys have gained. The last time I checked I only read of one member who had installed them and he had not been at the track as of that time. I'nm sure, however, that he has by now.

 

[Avenger]

That and the fact that as your times decrease it gets harder and harder to get them to decrease more. A Prowler with it's much lower weight runs 0-60 in 6 seconds I thought, where as I should run it in 7.7 secs or so? The Prowler may drop to 5.6 secs but the Intrepid would drop a lot more, possibly to 6.5 secs? Anyone see what I'm getting at? I'm gonna stop now I'm confusing myself

A car that has 125 HP and the same car that has 250 HP is not gonna have times that are exactly twice as good, the 0-60 times would look something like: 10 seconds and 7 seconds, so you see that 2x as much power does not = 1/2 the time.

 

[rman300m]

Some good points turbo. Here is the results from the 300m with the gears he gets a good gain 0-60 but I think he loses some time because of having to make the jump to 3rd because of the lower ratio.

Before
Ok...just got back from the track today. My best 0-60 was a 7.1. I shot three of them, a bad start (8.9), a 7.2 and 7.1. The temp on the EVIC was at 77 degrees and it was pretty humid out. I didn't unload the car of anything it was supposed to have either, so the full size spare was not removed!
DJ....I ran about a 16.45 with all my current mods minus the gears.

After
First Trip_____#1_______#2_____#3
60'________4.263_____2.669____2.645
0-60_______8.902_____7.219____7.193
1/8th time__12.578____10.882___10.841
MPH______67.6______67.25____67.42
1000______15.727____14.020___16.587
1/4________18.3______16.6_____16.5
MPH_______85.98_____86.27____86.22

Second Trip___#1_______#2_________#3
60'__________2.393_____2.412______2.671
0-60_________6.797_____6.836_____7.616
1/8th time____10.365____10.413_____11.473
MPH________ 68.98_____68.82_____65.53
1000________-----_______13.510_____14.682
1/4__________-----_______16.108____17.346
MPH________-----________86.6_____84.37

The machine measuring the run didn't work right on my first run...only captured the first part. You can also see the effects of getting the dual exhaust and TB work later in the run...my numbers really lag at that point. Early in the run however, they are pretty close.

 

[Avenger]

HOLY ****, 0-60 in 7.1!!!!!!!!!! That's insanely fast for a 3500lb + car

 

[Turbo]

HOLY ****, 0-60 in 7.1!!!!!!!!!! That's insanely fast for a 3500lb + car

So what do you call a 3800 lb. car running 5.9 seconds in the 0-60?

 

[Don Hardy]

OK, cut to the chase here! Drag strip time slips DON'T measure 0-60 times! Not trying to call ayone a BS artist, REALLY, but they don't measure that! Come on. And, TURBO has certainly gained a full second, but he has a turbo. Give me the times with ONLY a gear change, if you're gonna call me out. I've been here a long time, don't even want to make waves with all of the good people here, but let us get to apples vs apples. If I'm wrong, so be it, but please let's be sure we are on the same page of rules.

 

[rman300m]

The guy on the 300m club said "These were obtained at a sanctioned track ( Bradenton Motorsports Park )." The 0-60 time came on the timeslip.

Bradenton Motorsports Park

 

[HaTaX]

Some good points turbo. Here is the results from the 300m with the gears he gets a good gain 0-60 but I think he loses some time because of having to make the jump to 3rd because of the lower ratio.

Before
Ok...just got back from the track today. My best 0-60 was a 7.1. I shot three of them, a bad start (8.9), a 7.2 and 7.1. The temp on the EVIC was at 77 degrees and it was pretty humid out. I didn't unload the car of anything it was supposed to have either, so the full size spare was not removed!
DJ....I ran about a 16.45 with all my current mods minus the gears.

After
First Trip_____#1_______#2_____#3
60'________4.263_____2.669____2.645
0-60_______8.902_____7.219____7.193
1/8th time__12.578____10.882___10.841
MPH______67.6______67.25____67.42
1000______15.727____14.020___16.587
1/4________18.3______16.6_____16.5
MPH_______85.98_____86.27____86.22

Second Trip___#1_______#2_________#3
60'__________2.393_____2.412______2.671
0-60_________6.797_____6.836_____7.616
1/8th time____10.365____10.413_____11.473
MPH________ 68.98_____68.82_____65.53
1000________-----_______13.510_____14.682
1/4__________-----_______16.108____17.346
MPH________-----________86.6_____84.37

The machine measuring the run didn't work right on my first run...only captured the first part. You can also see the effects of getting the dual exhaust and TB work later in the run...my numbers really lag at that point. Early in the run however, they are pretty close.

Question about this post, is this with the Prower Pro gears or the 2.7/Special gears?

 

[Warlord187]

OK, cut to the chase here! Drag strip time slips DON'T measure 0-60 times! Not trying to call ayone a BS artist, REALLY, but they don't measure that! Come on. And, TURBO has certainly gained a full second, but he has a turbo. Give me the times with ONLY a gear change, if you're gonna call me out. I've been here a long time, don't even want to make waves with all of the good people here, but let us get to apples vs apples. If I'm wrong, so be it, but please let's be sure we are on the same page of rules.

You don't know how badly I want to do that. Anyone have $1500 to donate for "the cause"?

Like I said I would love to get the Prowler Pro Gears. But it sounds like the 2.7L gears may be the way to go in the mean time, if it weren't for the fact that I'm too much of a chicken **** to attempt the install.

:crazy:

 

[rman300m]

Hatax

Those timeslip times are with the prowler pro gears.

 

[Mopar4me]

The Prowler PRO gears are nice for racing but I enjoy going down the highway @ 75MPH . On my ES 3.2L, the actual gear ratio is 3.66 with a 32/33, the 2.7L is 3.89 with a 31/34 . I`m going to make a 30/35 gearset out of 4140 ase certified steel, then heat treat. I program a CNC wire EDM machine. You should be able to use the stock chain because of the same number of total teeth. The new gear ratio will be about 4.10. I`ll experiment on my car to see how they hold-up!
This may take sometime so I`ll measure the 31/34 set, then install, have fun, then try the prototype gears.

 

[Lafrad]

The Prowler PRO gears are nice for racing but I enjoy going down the highway @ 75MPH . On my ES 3.2L, the actual gear ratio is 3.66 with a 32/33, the 2.7L is 3.89 with a 31/34 . I`m going to make a 30/35 gearset out of 4140 ase certified steel, then heat treat. I program a CNC wire EDM machine. You should be able to use the stock chain because of the same number of total teeth. The new gear ratio will be about 4.10. I`ll experiment on my car to see how they hold-up!
This may take sometime so I`ll measure the 31/34 set, then install, have fun, then try the prototype gears.

if you can sell those gears for $125 or less, and still make profit off of them, you can make a killing.
i will EASILY pay $125 for 0.4 sec in the 1/4 I am VERY sure that most other people would agree with me on that.

 

[rman300m]

Mopar4me

I picked this info up from the history of the G force gears he also sold the prowler pro type gears till the guys at prowler pro stopped him because they had them patented.

When the Plymouth Prowler was introduced, everyone learned that the 42LE transaxle used was taken from the earlier Concord model. If you examine the Concord transaxle you will find that it has a 33 tooth / 32 tooth set of final drive sprockets. Plymouth must have discovered in their design work that in conjunction with the huge 20" rear wheels, that the Prowler would be too sluggish. As a result, the 42LE transaxle used in the Prowler would be fitted with a 34 tooth / 31 tooth set of sprockets. It seems that they too may have learned from the earlier GMC experience, or is this just common knowledge in the power transmission world.
( 92-93 model years of the Concord used a single chain configuration , 94-95 used a double chain configuration known as the Gemini chain. The Prowler also benefited from the Gemini chain system)

Borg Warner supplies the chain and sprockets used in the 42LE. In discussion with Borg Warner regarding the specifications of their chain and all the possible sprocket tooth combinations for the 42LE transaxle, I quickly learned that the only other feasible sprocket combination was a 35 tooth / 25 tooth set. (If anyone would like the calculations, please email me) I also learned that the "slack" in the chain for this configuration would not meet Borg Warners standards. The chain "slack" in this configuration was approximately equal to a 70% of the maximum "slack" allowed for a used or worn out chain. I suspect that Plymouth had already determined this when they decided to use the 34 tooth / 31 tooth set. Again, this is common knowledge in the power transmission industry.

The short version is I don't think the 30/35 sprocket combination will work.

 

[Veeb0rg]

when i do the build up to my spare tranny its get the 2.7l gears.. i'll take all the help i can get.. *even a tiny bit*

 

[Mopar4me]

rman300m

Thanks for the info. I would assume that Borg Warner would hold a patent on a certain sprocket and spline design rather
than an aftermarket company.

I would like the calculations on the chain slack and was also wondering about using a"worn"chain. The factory is usually concerned about getting "max life" out of the chain but `I`ll replace mine in 50K mile intervals if it means 4.10 gears.

I have more research to do!

 

[Warlord187]

if you can sell those gears for $125 or less, and still make profit off of them, you can make a killing.
i will EASILY pay $125 for 0.4 sec in the 1/4 I am VERY sure that most other people would agree with me on that.

Hell yeah!