I would read the procedure on replacing the water pump. You have to take the sprockets off and rotate the cams in order to properly install and time the chain and cams. You are not saving any time by trying to lock the cams, it is not necessary, and doing it with pliers risks creating metal shavings from their contact with the camshafts.

 

Thanks Daytrepper.
I did read/studied the procedure, I just didn't want to second guess myself in which way I should align the crankshaft sprockets (turning them CW, or CCW) when bolting them.
The shaved particles aren't a concern(I'll put some cover under the pliers).
If the camshafts sprockets are locked in their correct position, and all I do is to put the plated chain links on them, why should I have a problem with the timing?

Thanks again

 

Above , I meant the camshaft sprockets.

 

Is the chain going to be in the way of R&R'ing the pump w/o removing the sprockets?

Try what you're envisioning and see how it goes. You may decide to remove the sprockets before you're done - either out of necessity or you may realize that overall it would be easier.

Let us know how it works out.

(BTW - the ends of the camshafts have square holes for a 3/8" breaker bar - may come in handy.)

 

Peva,
After locking the camshafts, I first have to remove ALL the guides, that will give the chain all the slack in the world to remove it, and to install the pump .
Then, I'll put the chain back, then the guides . (I think it'll work).
Just watch the Chrysler master teck video, watch when he put the chain on without the guides (while the sprockets still floating), plenty of chain slack.

 

Peva,
In the Chrysler tech video, camshafts sprockets float, in my case, they are still bolted with the chain on. Both upper guides must be removed anyway because the the guides bottom bolts goes through the water pump.

 

Try it and see.

You got a link to the video?

 

 

Peva, in the video, he had to take off the sprockets because they weren't marked at 12 o'clock, he only lined the gear dot to the oil pump.
With me, I'm going to turn the engine till all the marks are lined u, then lock them.

 

Peva,
What a day....
Okay, I started by turning the crankshaft till ALL the marks lined up, including the two plated yellow links on the camshaft sprocket, and a single yellow link on the other camshaft sprocket, and a single yellow link on the gear to oil pump.
Next thing I did was using the locking pliers, then, removes the tensioner and purged the oil and set it(I practiced and it went well,yay! Didn't have to buy a new one).
I took the all the guides off, then the chain, then the water pump, and installed the new one.
I put back the chain, and all the guides and tensioner(I doubled checked the marks every minute) and before activating the tensioner, I removed the locking pliers , and then put a socket on the crankshaft bolt to turn it a bit to take the slack to the tensioner arm/guide, and when I started to turn the crankshaft, the yellow link on the chain to the gear SLIPPED! And the crankshaft gear(the one with the groove/dot) turned a bit as a result of the chain slipping.
What I did next, I put back the locking pliers to lock the camshafts (!) I removed the chain and guides, and turned the crankshaft a very very very little bit counter clockwise so the dot on the gear lines up with the oil pump mark.
I then, removed the locking pliers, and removed the camshaft sprockets (yes finally) and started to do it properly . BUT , upon trying to turn the (the passenger side camshaft, using a the 3/8 square ) to line up with the sprocket holes, I slipped , and the camshaft turned clockwise on its own. I stopped and here I am.
Did I f##k up ?
Did I cause any damage by turning the crankshaft one link to line it up with the oil pump mark?
Can I turn the camshafts with no primary chain on ? And what direction should a camshaft turns with the chain removed? Clockwise ?
I noticed (facing the engine while standing)when I removed the camshaft sprockets, the passenger side sprocket turned CCW, and driver side sprocket turned CW.

What should I do?
SOS
Thanks

 

Did I cause any damage by turning the crankshaft one link to line it up with the oil pump mark?
No.

Can I turn the camshafts with no primary chain on ?
If you have the crankshaft sprocket mark anywhere close to lined up with the mark on the oil pump (which puts pistons 1 & 4 @60° ATDC, 2 & 5 @60° BTDC, and 3 & 6 @BDC), you can turn the camshafts a complete 360° all day long with no problem. All pistons are down in their bores far enough not to touch fully opened valves.

And what direction should a camshaft turns with the chain removed? Clockwise ?
Doesn't matter when the chain is off. The only reason you need to turn CW with the chain on (turning it using the crankshaft) is to keep the slack on the tensioner (passenger) side. With chain off, direction of turning makes no difference.

 

Oh Peva, thank you so very much.
I tell you...I panicked, and just left everything as is.
So, tomorrow I'll remove everything again, and put it back "the proper way" as Daytrepper said.
The locking pliers thing was because I really really got confused about installing the camshafts sprockets. I still don't know which direction to turn them when bolting them.
Standing facing/looking at the engine, when the left camshaft sprocket bolt was removed, it turned CCW. The right sprocket turned CW.
It means (facing the engine) the left camshaft should be turned CW . And the right camshaft should be turned CCW to bolt the sprocket.((hopefully?!))

Oh, the old water pump gasket was ripped on two sides. Good thing I used synthetic oil .
Again , thanks a lot. I'll let you know tomorrow what happens.

 

The original water pump gasket should be solid (1/16" thick) aluminum with rubber molded to the edges. The rubber may be deteriorated, maybe even mushy and separating from the metal. But make sure you remove the aluminum gasket from the engine block - it would be easy to think it's part of the block and leave it there and remove only the rubber.

Regarding which way to turn the cams when bolting the sprockets back on, pay attention to the notches on the ends of the camshafts visible from the front of the car as shown on the gif you attached to your post. The notch on the driver's side cam should be at 2 o'clock, the one on the passenger side should be at 12 o'clock. Every detail (bolts, sprocket marks, cam notches) should be oriented or positioned exactly as shown in that sketch.

Is the gasket that came with your new pump a thin, semi-rigid piece with a hard black or orange-tan coating all over? That is a much better gasket than the factory original (no rubber to deteriorate).

 

Peva, oh yes, I made sure the old gasket was removed. You're right, it looked as if it was part of the housing.
You're correct, the new (stealership) gasket is as you described. Tomorrow/today, I'll take some photos and upload them.

Thanks again.

 

Peva, an update.
I reinstalled the chain, lower guides, camshaft sprockets, and the stop block, I had to grind it where the chain is supposed to lean, activated the tensioner, and turned the crankshaft full revolution, no binding whatsoever, it turned really easy. The stop block is really great idea(thanks for the suggestion).
I then, installed valve covers, plenum, timing cover but not the harmonic balancer, I got really really tired.
Tomorrow, I'll install whatever left, get a Chrysler coolant, bleed the system, and try to start it.
I have a question, is it a good idea to remove the fuel pump relay and crank the engine a couple's of times?
I'll get the photo of the old water pump tomorrow.

Thanks a LOT.

 

You're welcome.

Yes on the removing fuel pump relay and crank it - BUT also remove spark plugs - easier on the starter, no compression pressure on the dry bearings, and will spin it faster to get the oil more effectively circulating quicker.

 

Peva, you know what, I decided not to take the relay off, or the spark plugs.
I thought to myself, hell, the stop Block's job is to keep the chain tight, when I install it, it took almost all the slack from the chain, so, I'm not going to worry about waiting for 10 seconds for the tensioner to fill with oil.

Thanks

 

I was thinking about general lubrication throughout the engine since it's probably been sitting tor a few weeks without running. But it's probably not that big of a deal.

 

Peva, you changed my mind (you're the expert). I will remove relay and plugs. I did dump oil on every thing before putting the covers back on. Ya, the car has been parked for a week, and I'm not going to be able to work on it for a couple of days because my lower back and fingers tips hurt like hell 🤪😁.

Thanks again.

 

👍

 

Peva, I got motivated today and installed everything, and filled/bled coolant. When putting the cross support (upper radiator support?), It hit and broke the coolant temperature sensor which is located on the metal elbow infront of the bleeder . I was surprised it didn't leak any coolant !.
Damn it, I was so looking forward to start the car .
Can I start it anyway if no coolant leaked from the sencer ?

Thanks
Here is a photo of the gasket

 

I don't see any harm in starting it.

 

Okay, great.
Than you

 

Peva.
Thank you, thank you,. Thank you.
Car started great.
I really appreciate you help and value your knowledge.
Thanks again

 

I just remembered just to confirm about locking the camshafts!. The passanger side upper guide upper bolt was right behind the chain, and it was impossible to get the chain with lots of slack to remove unless the upper guide upper bolt be removed .
So, for all the people who are following this thread,
Is it doable to lock the camshafts and remove all guides in order to remove the chain ? No. You have to remove the passanger side sprocket (but not the driver side).
All in all, must be done the right way.


Peva, I thank you again.

 

You're welcome - and thanks for posting what you determined on the shortcut to help someone in the future.

 

The only reason I tried to use the locking pliers, is because I couldn't find any definite answer to which way I was supposed to turn the crankshafts.
So, don't use locking pliers! .
So, no more confusion :

To bolt the passenger side sprocket, you have to turn it CW. To install the driver side sprocket, turn it CCW and bolt it.

 

Glad you got it running; for future reference, there is a square cut in the front of the camshafts, to where you can use a ratchet with an extension on it to hold or rotate the cams when lining up the sprockets, etc.

 

Any ideas on lowering my age ? It'll make it easier too(mid 50s) 😁

 

Not yet, if you figure it out, lmk, my odometer keeps turning over as well....also, its not always the years, its the mileage...LOL