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'00 Brake problems, and I replaced everything???

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phungus

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
My wife has been complaining that our '00 Intrepid ES (3.2L with 16in wheels) hasn't been stopping well enough. The brakes have been pretty spongy and I actually hit someone at a stoplight when I wasn't paying attention (it was only 5-10mph, so it didn't do any damage). The problem was the car wouldn't stop quick enough. There were serious brake performance issues there.


I just replaced the rear pads (and one scored rotor) about a month or two ago, and decided to go ahead and replace the front pads. I check the rotors and they are smooth. I replaced the pads with Bendix ceramics and made sure to use the gel inside as well as the W clips.

After I replaced the fronts this weekend, brake performance was WORSE. The pedal went all the way to the floor and would hardly stop the car. Definitely not safe to drive. It would stop, but only just barely.

I decided I probably had air in the lines so I did a complete bleed. Sure enough the bubbles came out. Unfortunately, this didn't solve anything. Still no brakes.


I went ahead and replaced the master cylinder being sure to bench-bleed it, then I bled the whole system again. I made sure to get new brake fluid going throughout the whole system since the old stuff looked, well old.


The car seemed to be a lot better yesterday and I took it for a spin and I could lock up the brakes at 10mph. The pedal was still too spongy for my tastes so I figured I would look at it again this weekend.


My wife just took the car out and she said the brakes are very scary now. The car just doesn't want to stop. I didn't notice any leaks or anything the entire time I have been working on the car. I'm not quite sure what is going on.

I haven't performed a check on the brake booster, and I'm not quite sure how anyway.



Any suggestions as to where I go with it next? One weird thing was I *think* I saw only one wheel lock up when my wife stomped on them hard going about 15-20mph. I'm pretty sure all 4 calipers have movement on them as I looked at them when I bled the system.


Sorry for the long post but I'm very confused. I thought you weren't supposed to be able to lock the brakes up very easily with an ABS car? I don't have an ABS light on or anything.... ???

Thanks,
Jeff
 
#3 ·
1) If you have spongy brakes, you have air in your lines. It sounds like you have bleed them and air has come out, but it also sounds like not all the air has come out. It also sounds like you have ABS. If the problem is bad enough you may have to either get a scan tool or take it to the dealer because the solenoids need to be cycled. Refer to the following thread... http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33122

Also, when you bleed the brakes, did you make sure the fluid in the master cylinder never dropped below the minimum line? If it did, you just introduced more air into the system.

2) With only one exception that I know of, whenever you change brake pads/rotors, your stopping power will be less because your pads/rotors haven't been broken in yet and the transfer of friction material to the rotor hasn't been done. When the pads/rotors have been properly broken in, your stopping power will increase.

btw...that exception is the Bendix Titaniumetallic pads. Those have a thin layer of titanium on them to give you that extra stopping power and to help break in the brakes.
 
#4 ·
#5 ·
phungus said:

I just replaced the rear pads (and one scored rotor) about a month or two ago, and decided to go ahead and replace the front pads. I check the rotors and they are smooth. I replaced the pads with Bendix ceramics and made sure to use the gel inside as well as the W clips.
Click to expand...
Did you replace or turn the front rotors? If not, did you have Bendix CT-3 (ceramic) pads on there before?
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I bench bled the master cylinder thoroughly. Once I reinstalled I figured I had air in the system again (and I was right) and so I made sure new brake fluid came through in all four corners. I always overfilled the master cylinder several times on each wheel while I bled, so it never ran dry.

I didn't replace the front rotors because they actually felt very smooth and I didn't notice any cracking or anything. I'm not quite sure what 'glazing' is supposed to look like but I did clean both of them with brake cleaner pretty well before I put on the new pads.

I think the pads I had on there were OEM. They had the old straight clips (which I replaced with the W clips).


I don't think this issue is with stopping power of the pads. They actually seem to grab better than the old ones (because I could lock the tires up in a panic stop). The problem is there is no brake pressure, and I'm not even sure I feel the ABS system working. At least not like my other vehicle (a Buick Skylark).
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Mmm. didn't think to check the fuse.... :p

I'll do that once I get the vehicle back. It's at the body shop having some damage fixed. Wouldn't the ABS light come on if the whole system didn't have power though?
 
#10 ·
What about the brake lines? Any damage to them?
 
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#12 ·
As I stated before in another thread!
---The rear brake hoses have an inline proportioning valve which puts out braking ratio for all-4 wheels under different braking conditions!.
--One of mine where leaking (pass. side), but in this case it can just be clogged or frozen some- where, and the front brakes are doing the most work on friction and heat, which in other words is just the fronts are working, and not the back, or just maybe (1) rear brake hose is good!
THANKS!
---LUISA
 
#13 · (Edited)
If you replace the pads, you really should replace or turn the rotors. If you use the exact same, and I mean exact same as in same brand and same type, of pad, you can get away with not replacing or turning the rotors if the rotors are in good condition.

When you break in pads/rotors, part of the process is that a film of friction material is transferred onto the rotor. You need this in order to get full stopping power. *That is why when you put fresh pads on a new/turned rotor, the stopping power isn't there right away. Now, since you never did replace or turn the rotors, you still have that film on the rotors. The problem is that the film on the rotors is a completely different type of friction material. The film on the rotors need to be of the same friction material as your pads. Since you didn't replace or turn the rotors, this has not been allowed to happen.


On another note....

....did you lube the caliper slide rails? If both pads (inner and outer) aren't coming in contact with the rotor, it could very well take the entire travel of the peddle to get stopping power.


*The exception to this is the Bendix Titaniumetallic. The thin layer of titanium on the pad provides a high level of friction coeffeciency so the lack of initial stopping power is reduced. The titanium also helps break in the pads/rotors.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Yeah, I cleaned those pretty well with brake cleaner. Though, come to think of it, the drivers side I had some trouble with. The bolt felt very tough to turn into the caliper. I don't believe it was cross-threaded, just tough to get in there......... These brakes are a little wonky when you're trying to get those bolts through.

HMMMMMMMM......
 
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phungus
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